116. Do You Have The Right Mindset To Do A Start-Up?

Susan: 00:01 Well, Hey, everyone, I hope you are doing amazing wherever you are in the world. And you know, in our show we focus so much on the courage to start a business, the courage to grow and scale a business, to do a start-up, to do an IPO, to do a Series A, oh my gosh, how do you go to an exit? And I know many of you, wherever you are in the world right now, I think we're in over 90 countries. You are in one of the few places you're thinking of starting a business. So you, you listened to the show so you can figure out how to do that. Or you already have a business and maybe you're thinking, how do I grow in? How do I scale it? Do I pivot it? Or you are in a position where you're thinking, well, I kind of have a business, maybe I need to exit it.

Susan: 00:43 So we focus in the show in productivity, financial, just being, you know, not being an idiot with your money. Having a very balanced, focused, productive life. And so couple of quick announcements before we get into today's show. On September 10th, I am teaching my signature program. Organize your life. Now during six weeks we focus on your finances, your relationships. Yes, even relationships need to be organized. I actually get messages saying that I saved people's marriages. I'm not a marriage expert, but believe me, when you schedule things like date nights and other things and they become a priority, it's amazing how your life begins to fall into order. You can check it out on Susansly.com and that's September 10 and there is a very good chance my friends that this is the last time I'm going to be teaching this live and I do live interactive coaching. So you know, I've put thousands of people through the program. Susansly.com check it out there. All right, so today my guest is one of my favorite people on the planet. This is his second time on the show. So you'll have to check out his first show. And so much has happened since the first time he came on the show. And just a little bit of an update and a background. So in addition to graduating from Arizona state universities, even though he looks way younger than this, several, several, several years ago, let's say, he has designed amazing, amazing technology for Wells Fargo, American Express. He is the founder, one of the original founders, of Radius AI, which is an artificial intelligence company that is focusing on real time video analytics, which is very, very cool. And, I'm so happy to say I get to work with him every single day because I am also a co-founder now of Radius AI. And so my guest today is an absolutely amazing human being. And I was just saying to my husband this morning, when we were out on our run, I said no one that I know has a bigger heart or believes in people more than Mr. Jeff Cox. So Jeff, it's great to have you back.

Jeff: 02:55 Thank you, Susan. And I got a nice, healthy quote for you about how are you doing, how you feeling? So I love this one. And, I know, you know it, but “if I were feeling any better with myself and my company, vitamins will be taken me”.

Susan: 03:09 oh, okay.

Jeff: 03:11 That's a good one for you with, with all your, your healthy living and you, I got to say, working with you every day has been amazing because I went through my whole health thing and, and I took a little break because I've been so busy with, with the company and now I'm getting back onto it. So thank you for being an inspiration to me health wise and also in my work life.

Susan: 03:32 Well, thank you. And, I'm so excited. Jeff and I talk every single day, but it's fun for the world to kind of just bring the worlds and, and the listeners into some of these conversations. So let's start here. The last time you were here was actually last year and Radius is in a whole different place, closing out a funding round, getting ready to go to Series A, very focused on specific verticals. Why don't you give everyone an update of what's going on with Radius now?

Jeff: 04:05 Yeah. Fantastic. So, we, we did the show last September and at that point we are in the middle of doing some changes. And, so we have our AI, we have our tracker technology that, that we created and it can go into so many different verticals. And through that, we had an opportunity to move from doing smart cities into smart retail. And it made a lot more sense to us at, at the moment or at that point in time, mainly because it, it seems like when you're a start-up and doing work with governments, they're on a little bit slower of a timeframe than businesses. So businesses, doing business to business, it made more sense for the company. It made more sense for the investors. And sometimes, with a start-up, you, you have a captain of a boat and they set course for a, for a place and all of a sudden, an iceberg comes, you know, what do you do?

Jeff: 05:00 Do you keep going straight ahead or no, you have to talk to the crew. Hey, we're gonna, we're going to have to go off course here for a little bit. And all of a sudden then you find an island that actually has better land, more grasp, more, more animals, more, more, a better place to live, better climate, better temperature. And it's like, well, hey, we're, we're gonna, we're gonna use the, the naughty word, a pivot here, which a lot of people don't like, but we did that and it made sense. And, and at that point talking to you, you're like, I love smart, smart retail, this whole play, all the other possibilities, doing what the company at that point. And we got, we got you to join us. And it's just been an amazing year.

Susan: 05:40 Well, thanks. I, you know, so many people, Jeff, they're like, oh, start up. Right. And there, it sounds so sexy there. It's, it's challenging. Can you talk about like, what is, you know, what is one of the biggest challenges that you faced in building this company and how have you overcome that?

Jeff: 06:05 That is an amazing question because there's so many people in corporate America. I've done consulting, worked a lot in corporate America, learned a lot of right ways to do things, a lot of wrong ways to do things. And a lot of people, they want to do it, but they cannot take the risk. They're not. Because doing a start-up, you have to have the right people. And when it's your company, you have to do whatever it takes to, to make sure it succeeds. And, a lot, a lot of people in corporate America, if something's not working out, there's some of these big companies, there's a reorg every year at you sometimes fall on the right side of a Reorg, the wrong side. You get a new boss who just doesn't like you or feels threatened by you. A new boss will, will not want you to be part of meetings because he doesn't want you to leapfrog them because he's been stuck in a same position for a long time.

Jeff: 06:57 I mean, all these things happen and you get people that are just comfortable and they see that there might be a gold watch at the end. But now with, with today's climates and, and the world today, it, it seems like, yeah, because of these reorgs and the buyouts, people no longer have the job security that they have. And for me, I've seen the same things a lot of companies. Then you can start out with great boss and you start out with the right intentions and the great group, but then things change within a year a lot of times. And then it's like, so I, I've fired myself for many jobs where it's just like, all right, it's time to move on. And the good thing is, is I've met a lot of great people through all of my years working in corporate America. And from that, that was where I knew starting a business with Bobby Chowdary, who's just an amazing human being, one of the smartest people I know, knowing that we had each other's backs no matter what. And building technology where, where everything that we knew we could do would be years ahead of other companies. So you, we decided to do this. And then from that we, we were able to surround ourself with smart people. And so a lot of these people, they have these ideas and these technologies, they do so much work on the side, they want to do it for a start-up company where they can get a piece of the pie and have an exit and have something rather than do a patent for a fortune 500 company where they really get nothing out of it. So this is the whole methodology of Silicon Valley. Why do these people go to San Francisco? Why do they want to live in 400 square foot apartments? And because it's, they want to be part of something.

Jeff: 08:30 They want to put their heart and soul into something and then rather than get wealthy on that salary, they hope to get wealthy on the stock options upon the exit. So that is, that's it. So if some of these people, I know plenty of amazing managers, they're still in corporate America, they couldn't take the risk. So many technology people that are in corporate America, still a lot of them, they call me up like, hey, just want to tell you what happened. But they still can't leave. They're making good enough money and so their, their idea's to get wealthy slowly, but they just can't take the risk, their spouse doesn't want them to, their kids, you know, they don't want to travel. They want to be with the kids, which are all amazing reasons for doing it. So it's tough to get the right crowd, the smart crowd, the right people. And the hardest thing I can say is to bring the right people to do a start-up company because there are so many ups and downs. So there's so many things you have to change when you're small and getting bigger then it's pretty easy to fall apart.

Susan: 09:27 Does the, I mean you shared so much. Right. And I love the analogies too because it's, it's the, it does take a lot of guts and the, you know, everyone loves that story or they think, oh, I, you know, I wish I would have. And one of my friends once said, in our life, we have conversations of celebration or conversations of regret and which one do you want to spend the majority of your life having- conversations of celebration. Right? And, and let's talk about the work because the work doesn't end, you know, tell everyone your, how many hours in terms of building a start-up versus working in corporate America. Which one did you work? Do you work more in?

Jeff: 10:13 I love that. I want a year and a half without making a dollar put in this company together. And, so doing it. And it was right after a divorce and it was to a point where my ex wife, who's a great mom, we have a peaceful split, but she's like, well, maybe you should go deliver pizzas to get, get a little bit of extra money. And it's, it's down to that, that point where, because, you know, the kids want to do some things. I'm like, Hey, I'm, I'm, I'm on total budget mode and I downsize the house, but if I go deliver pizzas, I will not be able to do my company. But the, the bigger picture is I'll, I'll be fine in a little bit. And, and of course made things work and made sure the kids were taken care of. So it's, it's a huge, huge challenge and it's, it's doing it, it's a big risk and it's not for everybody.

Susan: 11:04 And you, we, on the show, we talked about Dave Ramsey a lot. I'm a huge fan of Dave Ramsey and so are you, and so are some of the people that we work with at Radius. So we, we use Dave as an adjective and a verb, right? Like I am Dave Ramsey-ing it

Jeff: 11:21 And I'm in rice and beans mode for a year. And, and you know, it's, it's so true. I love the guy.

Susan: 11:28 Live like no one else. You can live like no one else. So you, you saved a bunch of money. So imagine someone listening to this right now, they're like, you know, I'm willing to do it. I'm willing to make the sacrifices. I have this great idea, I want to do this. But you were also very deliberate. You saved enough money so you wouldn't take any salary until the company starts. Can you talk about that?

Jeff: 11:51 Yeah. So I was doing consulting up in San Francisco and, and had, had a couple consulting gigs and I was able to save enough and now this was also after divorce. So, then I can live in rice and beans mode and not have to disappoint a woman I'm living with, with my kids, I sacrifice me. So that way they could play softball, they could have clothes, they could have shoes, they could, I could take them out for their birthday. So, the good thing is they love Red Robin and Someburros and those aren't very expensive places. So though taking them there is a big treat. And then Outback to my little one, she thinks that's the greatest restaurant in the world as she could get a little steak there. So, you just have to have to find ways to spend it, make each dollar count, which also is great. And a start-up. We get investment money, we have to take the dollars and hire developers and then it takes two to three years before you have a working product that you can sell and bring in revenue. So, my lessons and basically my own life and budgeting has really helped with a start-up company too.

Susan: 13:02 Well, the, the thing too, and I love that you said that because it's, you, we know people who have attempted start-ups, not been successful, weren't fiscally responsible. And that leads me to my next question, which is, you know, it's interesting because with Radius, sometimes people go to Series A and they have no revenue coming in, right? Then there are people who go to Series A and have revenue. By the time they get to series A, they've got enough runway. You and I are all about, you know, making sure the accounting is there, the cashflow is there. And, and let's, let's talk about in your opinion, someone listening to this and they're thinking, you know, I really want to build a company. I really want to do this. What do you think are the things that would, are essential from a mindset perspective? Because I know, you know, you've gone to Tony Robbins, you read a lot of personal development. What are the essential things that a person needs to have the right mindset to be able to do it? Because it's not like, oh, I have this idea and I'm going to be successful. I'm going to raise the money and within a month I'm going to be living in a mansion. It doesn't, it's not.

Jeff: 14:20 So the first thing is the founders cannot get wealthy on the salary. You want to get wealthy on the exit. And that's what investors want. So, if I were in corporate America right now, I'd be making probably three to four times what I'm making. And so still I'm still in Dave Ramsey mode. I am not spending money, a lot, lot of things that I do. Hey, I, I have some airline points so I can take a trip. And you know, my 4th of July we went up to Oak Creek Canyon with the family. And through that it's, it, it's, we had a big cottage, a place through my brother-in-law's work. And so there's a lot of ways to, to maximize your money. So the first thing of course is, is yep, you're not going to get wealthy on the salary. So the second thing is you have to surround yourself with good people.

Jeff: 15:06 And then also people with skin in the game. So whether they have their own personal investors, they invest money, they invest time. For example, Bobby and I both started, the company made, made no money in it. I started to ask for money, which was money from my family and my, my immediate, accredited investor friends. And it was what we knew the company is going to get ready. The last thing, I want to do is take family and friends money and blow it. And so, and then also if I did have to meet a client in Vegas, if I did have to do a dinner, I'd put it on my own, my own credit card. So through this whole thing, I ended up getting my credit card up to over 60,000 to, for the company. Making sure that each dollar was, was ambassador, right.

Jeff: 15:50 But also my belief in the company and I didn't want, okay, if I, if I did have to buy a round of drinks for some clients and definitely I didn't want to have it be where, hey, you know, you're, you're blowing investor money on a big round of drinks and there's a couple of times each year where you have team meetings. It's things like this, which is okay, but every single dollar is, has to be, is this going to be good to have on the books? Is it not going to be okay? Like, but make sure if you sit down with investors, here's how we're spending our money. And so majority of our money is going towards salary. And then we do have an office in Phoenix and San Francisco. So flights, salary, are the main, and then of course technology. It's, it's taken up probably 90% of the budget right there.

Susan: 16:39 Yeah. And let's, let's be clear too because if you're doing a tech start-up, when Jeff's saying salary, like we don't even have an admin assistant. I use an admin assist from another one of my businesses and a graphic designer that work for Radius essentially, I pay them for my other companies like the, when we were talking salary engineers, data scientists, these guys are all working for a quarter of their, what they would get. Yeah. And this is really a credit to you Jeff, because a great CEO has to be able to cast a vision, rally people around the vision so that they'll, they'll work even for a period of time with less money. Because they're there for the vision, which is what Simon Sinek talks about. You know, when the "why" is so clear and it's inspiring, then it rallies people to you.

Susan: 17:34 And the thing I would say is if you're thinking of starting a company or even it doesn't matter what kind of business you have, if it's a direct sales business, if it's a, you know, brick and mortar business, whatever it is, get clear on that inclusive why, why people want to rally around you. Because if you're not clear and your why's only about money, you are not going to be successful. We've seen it all the time in corporate America with, you know, corporate greed and things go sideways and it's, there's nothing wrong with money. You know it, I love what Will Smith says, money doesn't change who you are. It only amplifies what's already there. Jeff's a really good person. He's just going to do really good things with money. I'm a really good person, right? So it's, it's knowing that and having that understanding and that discernment. Jeff, can you think of maybe like a, a funny story? Something that you know, makes you laugh in this whole journey of building this company because you are a person who just doesn't take yourself seriously. You don't have an ego around it, but can you think of a time when, you know, maybe something is just, you know, funny about what it is?

Jeff: 18:43 Well, you know, a few things. I'll circle back on a couple of things that you said. So one, one you mentioned Tony Robbins, I got to say, you know, and what does it take in the company? And, and our lead investor said, you gotta go to Tony went to business mastery last year. Things I learned in there, which were great. And you say, I have a good heart. And you know, one of the hardest things for me is corporate America. Whenever I have people working for me, if somebody wasn't working out, usually I talked, talk through with them, and try to find a nice place for them. When you have a start-up company, so here, here's another thing: you have to - Tony calls it go in a gladiator mode. You have to make changes and you have to do whatever it takes because you have investor money that, that you have to make sure is spent the right way.

Jeff: 19:26 And so doing that whole thing and everybody in, and back to your question, what is an important thing? You have to make sure you don't lose control of the company because sometimes some people will try to take it in a certain way that it's not going to work out. And, and as founders, usually you know, what's gonna work out and what's not not gonna work out. So, so that's one thing I wanted to circle back on Tony. You know, we love Tony. We love Dave Ramsey. And as far as funny moments, I got to say that that's, you have to live your life and surround yourself with people that you enjoy working, that you have laughing moments. I know you and I have, have been able to laugh and cry. We tried to get Bobby to laugh sometimes what? He's busy coding so much and talk about a good heart.

Jeff: 20:10 You know, Bobby has such a good heart and there's just so many, so many moments with the company of people that it, we love, I can say, somebody, oh one another person I want to bring out- Jerry Colangelo. I love, love him. He had no baseball, real experience. You know, he had all the, the Sun's experience put together, the great team. With what the 2001 time of acts, we won the world series. You know, somebody like Luis Gonzales who definitely wasn't MVP quality when we got him, doubles hitter became, you know, MVP amazing hitter. And I see some of our people like that. And so, one of our people I gotta say that's we hired but we didn't know who, his name was Paul, who's just amazing. And then going out and seeing that the guy likes to do Karaoke. I mean, and seeing a side of a, of a coder that wants to do Karaoke. I mean, it's like, so many of these moments are just amazing. Where you just got to sit back and, and see everybody's a person and certain things. You see them code in a way in typing in them while this guy can sing this guy. This guy's really funny on the side too. So

Susan: 21:27 I, they just reminded me that the two things that came up because, you know, one thing that really, we have a, a person on the team whose name is also Jeff, and we were all bowling and I'm the kind of bowler that I like the guards up like when I go with my kids. And so we're bowling, bowling and, and it was funny to watch who was taking the bowling really seriously. And then finally Jeff, who we called JK. J K goes, let's just go for velocity because you could see how fast the ball was going. And it was hilarious. Just in terms of that, that I thought, just to blow off some steam, we went to Top Golf and I, I don't put myself down, but for years I've always said like, I'm not a good golfer. The last time I golfed I was pregnant.

Susan: 22:17 In 1996 and I went to swing the club and it went out of my hand and narrowly missed the groin of the person I was golfing with. Anyway, that being said, we go to Top Golf and we have two teams and I look up on the leaderboard and there's one guy and his golfing is like his score is really good. And I said, that's who needs to teach me. And we just had that was so fun and it's, it's amazing. Like I think things like that when you're doing a start-up to just do some things where you know, people can blow off some steam, can laugh, can just talk about things that are, you know, really, you know, random and get to know people. Another thing that was going on like, for the listeners who don't know, there's like a side of me that I'm really like science.

Susan: 23:12 Jeff will tell you, AI Vector analysis, I love it all. And JK had said, oh my gosh, this is so funny. He had set this math problem in a like little graphic and like Instagram shareable. And so he said, do you know what the answer is? And I started sweating Jeff, cause I'm like, is this a test? I'm kind of like his boss. Like what if I get it wrong? And so anyway, then I started like sharing it with people on Twitter and stuff like that. And I, there were two ways to look at the math problems. I got it right for one way. So I did get a gold star, but I was like literally sweating about that.

Jeff: 23:51 I want to add one other funny thing that you and I talked about and you never know and you're, you call me up, Susan. You're like, Jeff, I want you to go meet this person out of everybody. I want you to meet, meet this person. And, and it's good. You're very good. You know, if it's a techie person, if somebody maybe has a similar sense of humor to me. And of course, what came up with this person during the lunch was Dumb and Dumber. The movie Dumb and Dumber came up and, and how do you connect with somebody? And it was just, I was like, I want to hang out with this person. This person has an amazing sense of humor. So maybe you suspected that and doing it and, and I called you up afterwards. I'm like, I'm like, we talked what you're like, what'd you talk about?

Jeff: 24:27 I'm like, we talked about Dumb and Dumber of course with business and everything else. But you never know where a business lunch conversation's going to go. But that one was such a fun lunch and first time I met her and, and we laughed and laughed a lot. Both of us did. And then telling you this story, just hearing you laugh too. It's just those are the moments in, in work that make it all. Yeah. Cause sometimes it is 80 hour weeks, you travel, you're away from your kids, you're away from your, your spouse, away from the person you're dating and, and you want to enjoy the people that you're with and try to make sure that you can have some fun too.

Susan: 25:03 How do you, things happen, situations happen. How, how do you keep yourself positive when things are going? What are like someone listening and you know, gives them, give them something that they could something tangible.

Jeff: 25:19 So what one story I like, and I forgot where I read this, but you have two prisoners looking out a prison cell and one person looks out and looks out the window and sees mud. The other person goes out and looks at the same window and says, oh my gosh, look at the stars. So what can you do? And I know one thing you and I have talked about is the last season of game of Thrones, everybody has complained about it. I'm like, I loved it. It was great. And, and it's so easy to focus on something bad. Like I can look at your, your room right now and say, okay, I don't like that picture up there. That doesn't go with the flowers. I mean, there's something in here. You got this amazing, beautiful woman who is so intelligent, so good with people and so knowledgeable, full of wisdom and positive energy.

Jeff: 26:08 But I can look at something I, yeah, I just, I don't know who that picture is, but it doesn't look like it goes well here. And you could look at me right now and you're like, oh my gosh, look at the shadow on your, your microphone here. You know, your lighting's not right. You can pick out wrong with, with everything. And then there are certain people like that, that if they are just full of negative, I just can't work with them anymore. And it's, so what do I look for now? And a lot of times when I was younger and I've, I've made mistakes when I'm older too. It's like, okay, somebody is so smart or somebody can do this, but they just don't click with the company. They're, they're, they always seem to put you on defense. They're always, they're not bringing positive.

Jeff: 26:47 And then the other thing I'd like to say is, you can either be a fountain or you can be a drain. What are, as soon as somebody a drain, if I'm in charge, they're gone. And, you know, of course I have to talk to other people, and then the other people. It's like, okay, they're breathing life in the company. They're, they're being so good. They're, they're helping everybody. Those are the people we want to promote and keep, keep within. And a lot of times these people, they're brilliant, they're smart or they're good, some somewhere else. But this is our start-up company. We cannot let this fail. Somebody who's a drain that has no money, no skin in the game. They don't care to them. It's just another gig. And if it doesn't work out for me, it's my family's money, my friend's money.

Jeff: 27:29 You know, you're part of this, you have your, your money invested, your friend's money. So we got to make the right decisions. So there's a completely, completely different mindset. And the thing is, is this person going to be positive? Are they going to look at the good things? Because no matter what company, no matter where you are, there's always Brian on our team. Uh, Brian Campeau who's amazing, amazing man calls it, you know, every start-up has their warts, you know, are you gonna focus on, oh, let, let's say, I'll take one of your kids who just got straight A's, amazing athletes and they got a wart on their foot for whatever reason. I mean, is that something you really need to focus at? No, you just, okay. You go to the doctor, you clear it, but it's not something you need to be to a Facebook post.

Jeff: 28:12 Oh my God, look at, look at my kid with a wart. And if all you do is focus on, focus on that, it's not positive for anybody. And it just seems like so many people live their life on the negative, always complaining rather than breathing life into something. And you are Susan and you, you've helped me. You've helped so many people in the company. You are so positive. You always edify people. You always, and so everybody is better in this company since you joined, everybody is better. You. And I got to say that, that helps with my kids. Do things I learned from you, helps with my, my kids, my family, my, my, my mom, my dad. I think I'm a much better son. I'm a much better brother. I'm a much better spouse. I'm a much better dad to, to my step kids. You know, it's just like, there's, there's mistakes everybody has made, but that, that doesn't need to be the defining moment. And can you learn from it? Can you grow from it? And there's always going to be mistakes, always going to be mistakes in a start-up and family life in a relationship. And I gotta say thank you Susan for helping me be a better person.

Susan: 29:26 Oh, well thank you. And that feeling is mutual, Jeff, the, that working with you every day when you are so positive. And, and also having the, the transparent relationship, you know, you'll call me out, I'll call you. And that's, we're in it. And, and building a start-up, you become a family. And that's the whole thing. I sent an email earlier today and I said, hello, my brothers to our board. And, and I think it's, it's that understanding in a family, you're gonna fight, you're gonna eat together. You're gonna, you know, agree. Sometimes you're going to disagree. But at the end of the day, I always tell my kids, friends will come and go, but family lasts a lifetime and a team is a family and a family is a team. And, you know, I, it's that when you were, you know, in building the company, it's what's happening now, but where we're going. And my final question is, if you could have a crystal ball, where in your, in your mind would you, you know, love to see the company say three to five years from now, where, what does that look like?

Jeff: 30:41 Will you said, um, money can, uh, you know, make you a better person? Everything will be revealed. So in three to five years, yes, I hope to have, oh, all my debts paid for, and then I'm going to turn it in a chocoholic. So I realized, yeah, I just just got the wedding paid for the honeymoon paid off and I went out and I bought a whole bunch of chocolates. So I think money is revealed at the B2B, a chocolate hall like, but...

Susan: 31:12 Jeff's not a drain. He's a fountain.

Jeff: 31:15 I'm going to go buy a big chocolate fountain, a Willy Wonka chocolate fountain and maybe, maybe put that at my house. Uh, so yeah. My dad jokes aren't for everybody, but, yeah, where do, where do we want the company? So our company, with our technology, there's so many verticals we can go into. We have our smart retail, we are going into real estate. There's other verticals that we're discussing and we're, we're keeping those among the board of directors right now and we're seeing where those go with, with AI what we have as, and that's the other thing. When you asked, you know, what do you need to have in a company? You need to have the right people, but you also, what's your unique proposition? What is unique? We have technology. We have, you know, the patent pendings, on our technology and there's so many things we can go into.

Jeff: 32:00 So it's one of the discussions I've had with some of the investors. It's like, okay, what do you want to do is what if this company is worth 250 million in a couple of years? Do you sell what and what we think the momentum is? And especially we got such a great team each year. We, we hold onto it. I mean, it could be worth in and three years of, you know, a billion. I mean, these are things every start-up talks about. This is why people do it. And so, so the difference between three and five years and plus with the way technology is going and where our business partners come in? Our proof of concepts, our pilot projects. It could be a completely different company in three or three years or five years, but the longer we hold on to it, the more valuable it will be. Which means if, between getting a chocolate fountain in three years versus buying a whole island, with, with Willy Wonka, this factory in five years, those are, those are the things that, again, to add humor to, to work.

Jeff: 33:01 So it's just, I, I see, I see, investors getting paid off. I see us taking our, our AI technology using it for good. And then at the point of what happens in five years, this is where we have our board of advisors on where do, where do we go in and do we, do we keep the company? Do we sell it? These are all things that it's not just my decision, it's not just your decisions. We have people who invested money that we talk to them once the right time. So it's, it's, it's going back to the captain and the ship. If we're on a great island and we see another one, well guess what? Maybe, maybe we can expand in and be in both islands. And if everybody's happy and the technology's taken off. So if you take Zuckerburg, for example, with Facebook, if in his first year of starting Facebook he knew he could sell the company for 500 million in one year, he probably would have. But now worry is, you know, the company just grew into everything. Same thing with Bezos, with Amazon, you know, originally selling books and now, I mean they, they are, I buy so many products on Amazon because I travel a lot and it's waiting for me when I pick it up. A lot of people thought Amazon was just an online bookstore at the beginning. Where, where is our technology going to go? And that's, that's the unknown.

Susan: 34:22 Hmm. Well a chocolate fountain netted that island. We'll come visit, we'll come visit the island.

Jeff: 34:30 I might be able to afford some Oompa Loompas too.

Susan: 34:32 Oh, excellent. My kids will dress up like flip as if they can swim in your chocolate fountain. They'll be, they'll be all good. And I love what you said is just this, we don't know where technology is going. We don't know where AI is going. There is a lot of, there are a lot of people having a lot of dialogue on the ethics of AI. When I did the course at MIT, it was, you know, this was a big discussion, the ethics of AI, artificial general intelligence, artificial super intelligence. And some people are scared, but ultimately, you know, it's here regardless. And one of the things I love about what we're doing, as you said, is we're using the technology for good enhancing human experience, using it to really help and grow jobs, not take away from jobs and, and just help people do their jobs in a more, you know, in a better way, in a more effective way. So I love that we get to work together. Thank you for being here. And if anyone wants information on Radius AI it's RadiusAI.com, so, thanks again Jeff.

(Some text edited for clarity and continuity purposes)