Interview With Emily Hirsh: Building A Brand And Reputation

Susan Sly
Well, hey, what's up

Susan Sly
Raw and Real entrepreneurs? I am so excited about our guest today, like, I'm just, I've been all day long thinking about 50 million questions I want to ask her on behalf of all of you, because as entrepreneurs, when we're wearing so many hats, and we're, you know, we're the accountant, and we're the product manager, and we're the COO and the marketing manager, what should we be doing to build our brand and our reputation? My guest today is the CEO and founder of Hirsh Media, and her clients are rockstars as influencers, as CEOs. I mean, Marie Forleo, Amy Porterfield, the list goes on and on. She is such an incredible badass entrepreneur herself. And so with that, Emily Hirsh, thanks so much for being here. Yay. Thanks for having me. So, Emily, I want to jump right in. What are some of the things that people are doing right, in 2021? Yeah,

Emily Hirsh
I mean, we are in such a pivotal time of online marketing and online brands right now, as I'm sure you know, and your listeners know, like, who doesn't know about the iOS updates, and all the changes that are happening. So I think the biggest thing that people are doing right, are really stepping into that brand and content, like, I feel like I started my business six years ago. And then it was kind of optional, you didn't have to have great videos and a podcast or you know, some form of content to connect with your audience. And you could still be successful with ads and the concept of like, all you need is a funnel and just start running ads to it. And now today, that's not really realistic. And so people are doing right is when you really step into that content, and you come up with innovative content. We're really in an era where like creators are shining. And so people who are able to step up with that are succeeding so much more in their marketing than the ones who haven't kind of caught up to that yet.

Susan Sly
And I love that. Now in terms of content, let's talk about frequency versus quality, because I have some friends who are just crushing it on social media, but they're not afraid to post something on Instagram that might not be highly edited, or you know. Talk about that, because I know, that's a big question people have. Yeah,

Emily Hirsh
I mean, I think that we are in a time where you don't have to have highly edited content. You used to need to, you know, like teleprompter, and have a whole video shoot and everything. You really don't need to do that anymore, especially with reels and the short amount of videos that you do like less than 30 seconds that are doing well. But the quality of the content is important. And I kind of have this rule that I tell my team and our clients and it's like, you'd be better off not really posting something than posting something just to check it off and be like, Oh, I posted five times a week this week, or I got seven ads up or whatever. Every piece of content, whether it's organic, paid, and email needs to make an impact. It needs to stand out because the industry is just getting more saturated. And so you have to uplevel your ability to stand out with your content. So quality is important, but not necessarily like the vanity of quality where it needs to look perfect. The content needs to land and make an impact on your audience.

Susan Sly
And that is so powerful, because I know a lot of people are going, Oh my gosh, you know, I don't even know where to begin. And I had Luke Aberle, who is like, I love interviewing young entrepreneurs. He's 12. And so he started this company called Luke's Views, and he's doing, he's reviewing outdoor gear. And so he's got this growing YouTube channel, he's monetizing his business, people are sending him products like, he's amazing. And we were having this whole content, you know, conversation about what happens when you feel nervous to deploy content. Like there's some people are like, Yeah, I just, you know, whatever, I put my phone up, I'm good to go. And then there are other people who get so intimidated, Emily, by putting things out there. Now Luke's advice was, don't worry about being perfect. Just get it out there. What would you say? Yeah,

Emily Hirsh
I mean, I think people actually like it when you're not perfect, because you're more real and especially the way that content is, like Instagram stories. It's so raw and organic and real. So I totally agree. And I also would add, you know, I have clients like that too. Some that are incredible on video and you just tell them what to do and they go do it and then others were like, I don't know, I don't want to do video and, but it's so critical right now. And so there's ways to be creative with like it not just being your face or using a team member or just trying to figure out like how do you still have powerful content if you don't want it to be you all the time. And I think also, like you just get better the more you do it. So just Just start doing it. And like, you know, I probably would never want to go back and listen to my podcast like three years ago, it probably sucks, those first ones, but you just have to get started and then you will get better every single time that you do it for sure.

Susan Sly
And I love that you said that because the, David Meltzer's team reached out to me and my friend, Todd Armstrong over there, and David is such a guru in this industry. And we were talking about podcasts and less than, less than 80, or sorry, 90% of podcasters haven't put out a new show in the last 90 days. And that whole concept of perfection, and even you and I were talking about the show, and so for everyone who's listening, I like, just so, just to give you into my real life, because this is Raw and Real Entrepreneurship. So, didn't have a great night sleep last night. We have contractors at our house, were ripping up floors, and they've got Emily like, Oh, no, this machine, and it's just like, you know, it's dredging up these old hardwood floors. And it's so noisy, so I go running down, like 45 minutes from my house to another office. But

Susan Sly
I don't have my recording studio here. So I've got a headset on, it is what it is. Because I'm not going to miss an opportunity to interview Emily, because that's part of it. And sometimes, you're just gonna have to go with the flow. Let me ask you this, in your entrepreneurial journey, you know, people see your agency, I look at your agency, I'm like, Girl, you are crushing it. If you could go back and tell yourself something when you first started, like a big lesson learned, what advice would you give yourself?

Emily Hirsh
Yeah, that's such a great question. So much, like so much that we could go back and, but it's all part of the journey. For me, I think a lot was around like team building. That's the one thing that I didn't know how to do. And it's so critical for like scaling a service company, because I got, you know, I can hustle and I can work and I can do everything and get myself in anywhere and make it happen. But then when it comes time to building a team, that's where I had no idea, you know what I was doing, I'd never done it before. And so if I could go back, I would really emphasize more on like slowing down to speed up concept a little bit like, I think I could have actually done a little better if I would have done that. Because sometimes you get to that place where it's like that breaking point. And you have to slow down just a little bit to put process and structure and foundation in place so that then, you can scale with the team. And so I just didn't have you know, the bandwidth to even think that at that time, but I definitely would go back and like now everything in my company is like process, process. I swear, that's all it is. But you know, when I first started hiring team members, it was like, Okay, can you help me, I found you in this Facebook group, like, I need help right now. Watch me on zoom. There's zero training, I just go, which is part of the journey too of the beginning. But I think like, if I could go back, I would, I would tell myself start documenting earlier, start making process, start trying to remove yourself from some of that day to day so you can grow the company bigger. I love that. And

Susan Sly
that's what a lot of entrepreneurs talk about it. Once you go into that stage of you're hiring people so it's not just you doing everything, and now you're bringing on team members. And it's that like, making bad hires can drive you crazy. And I love what you said about process. So one of my friends, he owns a digital agency, but they serve agencies. So they're an agency for agencies doing like the plumbing and the guts and stuff behind the scenes. And his company is one of the top 10 on Glassdoor. So I spent a lot of time eating meals with him, a lot of time picking his brain. And one of his biggest things he taught me is the hiring process. And you may love someone but you're coming from the place of almost desperation. To your point, Emily, like you want to fill this role. And having that second set of eyes. And even right now, as we're hiring 60 people, I'm documenting the process and saying okay, you know, first interview, second interview, now we do three interviews, then it's two interviews, NDA, third interview, background check, face to face, ideally with a meal, and then you get the offer. So, but all of that stuff is so important. Yeah. What about you know, everyone you know, people always see the glory, they don't know the story. Right? What has been the hardest thing for you in building the business? Like that has really caused you to look in the mirror and go oh, crap, that Oh, crap moment. This is something I have to shift. This is an area I'm feeling confronted. What has been that for you? Yeah, I

Emily Hirsh
mean, it still comes up for me as around the team because I've had to learn so much around leadership. And I think when I first started growing a team, I kind of thought I had to like, control everything and I'd come in and be like, Okay, here's the problem. And here's the solution. And you're going to do exactly what I say and like, I have the answers. So why wouldn't you listen to me? But I've learned so much, especially in the last two years around the power of collaboration on a team. And as you grow and scale a company, like you, ideally remove yourself from the day to day, which means you don't actually have the solutions to the problems that are happening in your company. And so I've grown a lot personally in being able to go to my team and say, Okay, you guys, you tell me what the problems are, and then mute myself on zoom and not weigh in until everybody speaks. And then you also tell me what you think we should do. And it creates so much better results in the company when it's not like me driving everything. And I think that's something we think is like, when we grow a team, we still have to be everywhere, and telling everybody what to do, and solving all the problems, and coming, swooping in to fix things when something doesn't work. And so that for me is like, something I've grown a lot, especially in the last couple of years in, in facilitating that collaboration. Because another thing is your team, if you just take over like that, they'll be like, okay, like, we'll just listen to you, you know, they won't have the space. And so you have to create the team environment where that's encouraged. And then you have to show them when they tell you a problem, how you handle it. And it comes in like, a lot of micro actions. So I think for me, like my company has done so much better after I've learned that the hard way sometimes. But you know, your team is on the front lines, and oftentimes you're not.

Susan Sly
Yeah, that's it. And stepping back, right? Because women like us, we like control, right? And the whole fixing thing, too, I find as well for me, as a woman, it's part of my nature, right? So I'll get like, I'll get staff members coming to me and telling me things they might not tell someone else. Or they might not tell a man, right? Like, you know, my, my, you know, I found out my wife has cancer, I found out my mom's scan didn't go well. Those are, you know, things that happen. And you know, they're taking you aside and they want some comfort, they want some nurturing, it's just a, it's a whole different thing. And sometimes I, you know I watch how some of the men in my life lead versus how I lead. And my husband was saying to me, and it's my next question too about that, your your husband. My husband say to me, like, they all look at you like a mother hen. And I feel even more obligated with regard to making sure everyone's emotionally feeling good about their work environment, not just you know, about getting a paycheck. Yeah. Speaking of husbands, your husband is very entrepreneurial, too. So how does that work with two entrepreneurs? Yeah, so

Emily Hirsh
he, actually, we started his company together first, and then I kind of like lead into mine. And so we both just don't work for other people. Like, that's kind of our personalities. I definitely am, like more the entrepreneur actually, like stronger, always been since I was a kid. And I think I've brought it out in him a lot. Like for him, it's more, he just never wanted a job. And so he built a little bit of a business, you know, in personal training, and was never wanting to scale it huge, like I have. But it works in the sense that we have so much flexibility. And we're able to, you know, be in Colorado for a month and have that kind of dream life together. I think there has to be like a lot of communication, because we also have three kids. And so it's like, who gets priority, right, when something comes up and we both have something and we dont have our nanny or you know, those situations. So that communication is super important. And, you know, that understanding of kind of balancing it. And also the, you know, I think one thing between us that we do so well is like, it's not put on me that I have to cook and go grocery shopping and clean and do all those things, when I see a lot of actually, female entrepreneurs struggle with that where it's like, if their business and they have to do full time at home, my husband does a lot of the cooking, pretty much all the cooking and, and we have that like shared it in home too which without that I don't think I could be doing what I'm doing at all.

Susan Sly
Yeah. And I'm so happy you talked about that. Because those roles and responsibilities, right? Like, you know, whether it's driving kids to school, and my two youngest ones just started back at school. And now my schedule changes again. And as parents and entrepreneurs, we have to be agile, and that's tough. Like so suddenly now my youngest one leaves for school at like 6:50 in the morning. And before, we live closer to her old school, so it's like last minute, I'll leave three minutes before. Yeah. And so now I'm going okay. And I'm also going into an office a lot of days so I'm going, okay, like get the workout and get up earlier. When am I going to do my hair if I'm going to be on camera? Like you know, all these other things that go into those decisions and to your point, Wednesdays, I had Dave Asprey on the show. And one of the things Dave was talking about too is one of the first things you should do is get somebody to do your laundry. And I have someone cleaning my house, but I didn't have anyone doing my laundry. So I was like, Yeah, I am getting someone to do my laundry. And the other thing he said was, as a successful entrepreneur, especially as you're growing your business to seven figures, eight figures, nine figure valuation, multiple nine, that you should have a mentor, and you should have a therapist. Let's talk about mental health because it's again, it's very easy to look at someone like you ago, she's a mom, she's got a successful agency, she's working with, like, all of these amazing influencers. She's got her crap totally together. Do you ever have wall kicking moments? And if you do, how do you handle those emotionally?

Emily Hirsh
Yeah, I mean, absolutely, I do, for sure. And I love too how you talked about getting help. That's something I think we're so in alignment with, because I talk about that all the time. Like, you cannot do it all. You can have it all, but you don't have to do it all. So for sure. Um, for me, I mean, yeah, I am

Emily Hirsh
a big fan of therapy. I, also for me, like working out is so important. And I've learned, you know, again, go, if you were to go back to say, my early self, it would be something I'd tell myself is like, don't tell yourself, like, when this happens, or when I launched this, or when this is done, then I can take care of myself. Like, no, it starts today and everything else will figure itself out. So for me, I go for a walk every day. And that's like, huge for my mental health. And having time where I'm away from my phone, you know. As you know it's, you can easily never be disconnected. You can be on your phone, or you know, especially when you work from home or you have a home office, it's like it's always right there. And I started my company so I could be president with my kids, was one of my reasons. And so I've never wanted to let that come in between you know, that time where it's very mixed. So, for me, when things feel tough, I have a saying that's, don't quit on a bad day. Like that is you know, you're gonna have days where team members quit or something goes wrong, or a campaign fails. Like we all go through that. Whether you see it on the front or not, every single person is going through it. So don't quit on a bad day. And then taking care of yourself as one of the number one things because if you can do that, you'll be able to think clearer. Like for me, if I get outside and go for a walk, that's one of the biggest things for me if I'm feeling stressed, or anxiety or whatever, just getting outside, leaving my phone behind, in my own head and going for a walk. I also do like 10 minutes of meditation every morning that I can. Sometimes my kids are like right there, but I still try to get it in. So I think we all have our own thing. But it's like, it really does boil down to self care too, which I also think as a mom and a business owner is really easy for that to slip away. And you did not put yourself first ever. Absolutely.

Susan Sly
Yeah, that's so well said. And you've got to, it goes back to putting the oxygen mask on yourself first, right? Like, so many people, parents, entrepreneurs think it's selfish. It is selfless. Like, I'm not going to be a good human if I roll out of bed and look at my phone, which I don't, because there are text messages, slack messages, multiple slack channels, emails, like it's just, it's never ending. Right. To your point. So that morning of you know, meditating, prayer, really good black coffee, a workout, getting the kids ready for school making sure no one's going to school with a big tangle in the back of their head. Yeah. And they have lunch and you know, here in Scottsdale, that they have their water bottles, and you know, all that good stuff. It's huge. Let me ask you this. Is that from a vantage point of trends, so really thinking about the, you know, we've got people concerned with Delta variant and businesses shutting down again, potentially. What advice would you give to someone who's listening who's got a business, and they've weathered COVID, and now they're like, Oh, crap, here we go again. What are some tips you could give to that person?

Emily Hirsh
Yeah, I mean, obviously, if you're, you know, a brick and mortar business, that's really tough and hard. But I think, you know, everybody's been impacted one way or another in the last year. Some really positive, some negative, some like in the middle, they've, they've stayed the same. And I think for me, I always come back to and what I encouraged our clients, especially throughout COVID, was pay attention to what your audience needs. Because the reality is like in most businesses, your audience still needs you. And that might change a little bit how they need you or how they want to be communicated with or connected with. But if you pay attention to that, and you pivot your marketing and your messaging, and sometimes even your offer, maybe. Like maybe you have to pivot how you deliver. And I've seen a lot of brick and mortar businesses get really creative with that. And so what you don't want to do is just be like, let me just wait this out, right? Because we've, we're seeing like, it's been a year and a half. Like we don't want to just wait anything out. We have to figure out how do we step up. And I think these type of things, it's inevitable, right, hat something's going to happen at some point. And so it calls out the true leaders to be like, who are going to, who's going to be like, no matter what I'm getting through this. I'm going to be creative. I'm going to connect with my audience. I'm going to figure out what exactly they need, and I'm going to provide it to them. And so I've watched, you know, companies do that through so many different things. And they succeed. And so my advice is, is your audience at the end of the day is key, right? Because you're there to serve them. Whoever that audience is, whoever those customers are. So figure out what's changed for them, what they need, what are they afraid of more now than they were before? What are they struggling with? If you need to get on the call, and actually ask them these questions, and then cater your business to that. And sometimes, like I said, even your offers, I know, for us, like, we're heavy in Facebook ads. We've had to shift things in the last year because of all the changes with Facebook. And if we didn't, I'd be irrelevant, you know, as I was a year ago, and so that's the name of the game. Like that's what you signed up for as a CEO, and have to step up and lead in that way.

Susan Sly
Oh, girl, preach, I love it. Let's, because it's raw and real entrepreneurship. There are people I have, you know, I have a friend who, Rebecca Zung, and she's killing it on YouTube. And we're the same age. And she was an attorney. And now she specializes in helping people deal with narcissists. She builds funnels, and she started by herself building her own funnels. Now she has a team. And she's making a very, you know, significant career out of doing this. There are people out there who think, oh, if I just start posting on Instagram, I can become an influencer and make money. Let's talk about budget. So for people who are, let's say, someone is making, you know, seven figures with their funnels, what do you think they're, you know, you know, what, what do you estimate they are spending on their ad spend?

Emily Hirsh
Yeah, I mean, if you're making seven figures straight from ads, a good you know, return on your ad spend is three times. So you'd be spending a third of that potentially, on your ad spend. You have to also see with marketing, like you're getting leads, right? And those leads might buy in six months from now. And so, paid media, Facebook, ads, YouTube, whatever it is, is also always going to be a partial investment. Like, yes, you want to get that initial return on your ad spend and a good you know, average return on ad spend is about three times. So if you spend $1, you get three out. But also you're getting email leads and traffic and building audiences that you know, an average that somebody you know, has a touch point with your brand is five to seven times. So they might buy from you in 6 to 12 months. But you got them on your list from Facebook ads a year ago. So you have to also go into it with that kind of investor mindset. And like you're saying, you know, that idea of like, Facebook ads are gonna save me or YouTube ads are gonna save-- I've seen that so much in the last 12 months, where people are like, oh, Facebook ads got more expensive, I'm going to jump platforms then. It's like, No, your problems are going to follow you if you don't figure out the foundational issues. And so anything marketing, whatever platform it is, or even organic, which is really just a bigger investment in time than paid media, is an investment. Investment in time or investment in money. And you've got to play that long game, or you're just going to end up quitting and jumping to something new, which so many people do do that.

Susan Sly
Yeah, I love that. And it is such a long game. And it doesn't matter what kind of business someone is in. There is an investment because it's delusional to think you're not going to invest something. Even, you know, to get the blue check, you know, 19, $20,000, depending on who you are. You know, paid media, organic media. And here's a fun thing for the startup founders who are out there. So now, for Radius, we're going into series A. So we're, we're pitching all these VC firms. And Emily, one of the first things they ask is, what is the plan to use the funds? And if it isn't sales and marketing as your number one in your span, and we're talking multiple millions of dollars that need to be attached to your budget productions, they think you're an idiot. Wow. So you know, even from the vantage point of Radius AI, and looking at that, because I helm that division of the company, and being strategic about that and going okay, well, to your point about jumping platforms, some platforms are better suited if you're like b2b, or you're looking for enterprise customers, then you're on LinkedIn, you know, that kind of thing. You're probably, you know, not Instagram as much, but looking at it and going, how do we deploy this ad spend in what makes sense? And what is our long term strategy? Not just like the next month, but we're looking at to your point, the next 18 months, the last 24 months, so I love that you said that.

Susan Sly
So Emily, my last question is, okay, three kids, wife, company, staff. Walk us through your day. Because I think that the best way for anyone to become successful is to mirror success. So what does your day look like?

Emily Hirsh
Yeah, so I'm huge on a morning routine. So we've kind of already touched on that. But I'm the same. I don't touch my phone in the morning, I've got like my things I have to do. I do a meditation, I'm present with my kids, I usually go for a walk. So huge on my morning routine. Once my kids are, we have a nanny, and my kids will be going to school. But once they're off with the nanny, then I'm working. And my day doesn't look the same every single day. But usually I'm in meetings, a lot of times. Like that is the reality when you're managing a team. I find myself in a lot of whether it's like department meetings or meetings with my direct reports. Or I'm creating a lot of content. So I have my podcast, videos. And I think those are the two places I try to keep myself, is either creating content or you know, in meetings leading. That's my job versus being in the tactical day to day. So I kind of theme my days, like Wednesday, Fridays is no meeting. So I'm very heavy on content creation in those days. And I'm clear going into the week exactly what I need to get done. And that's organized. And then Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, are heavy meetings, and I try to like, batch them all together. I really only work until about 3:30. For me, I found that like six hours of like really deep work, I don't really take breaks, I don't know about you. But with kids, it's like when I have the free kid time I'm like all in and I don't take like a lunch break ever. Which is a bad thing too. But that's just how I work. The best is going really deep. And so I only work until about 3 or 3:30 then I usually work out. And then I'm with my kids and I try, and I'm not perfect at it. But to leave my phone in the office, close the door and be present with my kids, you know until they go to bed. So it's a very like habit, discipline, routine that I have. And it feels sometimes like Groundhog Day. But then in work, I think for me what gives me that fulfillment is that it's different than being a mom and different things do happen every day and challenge me and my brain and I get to show up in that way. So...

Susan Sly
Yeah, I love that you were so clear on that. Because there are so many people out there who are random. And if you're random, you're not going to be successful. There's no, there's no success in that like, Oh, just take it as it comes, you know, no. You've got to be deliberate. And we're very, very similar. And I don't have my no meetings yet days. But I did before we started hiring 60 people that's a word. And I think that, that's the other thing. We were in phases, right? You know, like if Emily was hiring a hundred people tomorrow for her agency, her schedule might look different or when the kids go back to school. Her schedule like still when they start school. So it's that, it's knowing that it's going to evolve, but it's also having that solid foundation and putting the phone away. I do the same thing too. I put it in the charger. I shut it down and I close my office door and I'm done. And I start my day super early too. But I know that after a certain point, I just did not, I can't make the decisions, I need to as a CEO so-- same. I love it. Well, Emily, you're such a rockstar. So first and foremost, everyone needs to follow Emily on Instagram. So give everyone your Instagram handle.

Susan Sly
Yeah. So it's Emily Hirsh and Hirsh is H-I-R-S-H. Everybody puts a C in there. No C, H-I-R-S-H.

Susan Sly
H-I-R-S-H, no C. And then if you're interested in well, Emily's got a killer podcast. She's got amazing resources on her website. If you're looking for someone to do your brand and your media, you obviously have to have a budget for it like we talked about. So go to Hirshmarketing.com. Correct? Yep. Hirshmarketing.com. Well Emily, thank you so much for being here and all of the great tips you gave. You're amazing.

Emily Hirsh
Yeah. Thanks for having me. It's been fun. I feel like we have a lot in alignment too. So I'm excited.

Susan Sly
Yeah, next one we do we'll have to be like together on a mountain in Colorado or something. That sounds amazing. All right. Well, thanks so much, Emily. Thanks, everyone. God bless. Go rock your day. And we'll see you on the next episode of Raw and Real Entrepreneurship with Susan Sly.