Human Connection and Trust-building in Sales – Interview with Ari Galper

Ari Galper 00:00
That's what real trust is. I tell my clients fall out of love with your solution and fall in love with your clients' problems. Because if you can connect that deep level with them, they're gonna say themselves, she just gets me. Something about her just feels right. And that feeling, we have to create with people.

00:20
Welcome to the Susan Sly Project where entrepreneurs rule, startups launch, and the side hustle becomes the main hustle. Ladies and gentlemen, your host, Susan Sly.

Susan Sly 00:32
Well, hey, everyone, I hope you're having an amazing day, wherever you are in the world. And I have a question for you as an entrepreneur. Someone thinking about being an entrepreneur, someone thinking about getting back into entrepreneurship, when I say the following word, how does it make you feel, and that word is sales. So you're either like, Yay, I love selling, or I do selling because I have to, or number three, you're like, I can't stand sales. Well, guess what? You're in business. Yes, nod your head, it means you have to know how to sell. So we are so fortunate to have the world's number one authority, not number two or number three, number one authority in trust based selling. And check this out. He's appeared in CEO magazine, Sky News, Forbes, Inc Magazine, the Australian Financial Review, amongst others. He has clients in 35 countries. He is an amazing author. I have his books right here on my desk, and we're gonna dive into those in just a moment. And on top of it, he's really been able to unlock the myths behind sales. So I have to tell you, you guys know I've had a lot of incredible guests. But I am super excited about this gentleman today. So wherever you are, whatever you're doing, just put your hands in the air. And let's celebrate the fact that the amazing Ari Galper is here. So Ari, I'm so happy to have you here. You're coming live from Sydney. So it's great to have you.

Ari Galper 01:58
Thank you, Susan, really excited to be here as well, appreciate the intro.

Susan Sly 02:02
I want to just jump right into the first mess. Right? So one of the things that you discuss in your book, Unlock The Sales Game, which you know, I'll give a shameless plug to you, because not only have I read hundreds of books on business, but I've written books on business as well. I love how condensed this is, and to the point, and one of the first myths is sales is a numbers game. And we hear that all the time. Can you talk about why is that a myth?

Ari Galper 02:32
Sure. So we grew up of course, in sales world where it's all about how many contacts you make more calls you make, the more opportunities you get. That's the concept, the more activity you get more results you get. Well, we discovered this economy now where the world's changed, it's not about how many contacts you make anymore. It's about how deep you go on each conversation, how good you are trust building, not how good you are, how many contacts you make. I just spoke a few minutes ago before our call with a head of sales of a big company. And his challeng is his whole team's feels like their goal is to make as many cars as possible during the day. They don't understand they can make a lot less and just connect correctly and make that trust happen. And then their numbers will fly off the roof. So it's a real mindset shift around that myth.

Susan Sly 03:17
Mm hmm. I love that. And do you think in your opinion, that people just aren't spending enough time building trust on the front end?

Ari Galper 03:26
I think they don't know how. I think they know how to build relationships, meaning the whole rapport thing. Oh, how's it going? Nice to meet you. How are you? The whole fake rapport thing? You know, like, speak like your friend first but they don't want to become your friend, kind of thing. We learn from the old sales gurus. I think real, deep trust is a different skill. It's a skill you have to learn. Even if you've been in sales for a long time, that requires a shift in mindset, and some new languaging around that we're talking about today.

Susan Sly 03:56
Yeah, well, I definitely I want to, I want to jump right into that point. So what is you know, what is the the number one way that someone can build trust, especially with someone that they're just meeting for the first time. Because a lot of people are intimidated? Right?

Ari Galper 04:12
Totally. And the real bomb I'll drop to get going here is that you have to shift your thinking away from your own goal. Let go of the outcome, let go of the sale and start the conversation wrapped around what their problem is. It's like a doctor-patient relationship. Right? When you see a doctor, they don't try and become your friend. The first thing they say to you is, where does it hurt, right? So we have to be able to engage around their issues. And if you stay in the role as long as you can, and they're going to come back to you and say to you, how can you help me? That's what real trust is. I tell my clients fall out of love with your solution and fall in love with your clients' problems. Because if you can connect that deep level with them, they're gonna say themselves, she just gets me. Something about her just feels right. And that feeling we have to create with people.

Susan Sly 05:04
I love that. And that aspect of knowing your client's pain, right? Research is is critical. And Harvey Mackay who's my personal mentor, right, had designed the Mackay 66, which I know you're familiar with. And he's always said, Never go into a sales meeting without doing your research. So do you have things that you suggest your clients do in terms of researching before they get that cherished meeting?

Ari Galper 05:36
Well, look, it's one thing to research the client themselves in terms of their industry, what they do, but you have to at least know what are the three core problems that you solve for your market. Right? And here's how you can figure it out quickly, reverse engineer, you simply ask your current clients this question, what three problems went away when you use our solution? What problems do we help you solve? What goes away? When you, when you understand what the issues are from their point of view, in their own words, that's how you anchor your relationship with them in the process around their problems. So it's one thing to know about what business they do. But you also have to know what problems your solution solves for them, which is a bit reverse thinking, because we're so used to talking about the benefits, how it works, it's amazing. Oh, my God, you're gonna love it. But don't think about well, what problems that you solve. That's the real shift we're making here.

Susan Sly 06:29
That's huge. And it's that, the power of doing the prep, asking the questions, what three problems? And what advice would you give to someone who's newer to the market? And so I'm, Ari and I are new friends. Right? So what you might not know is I'm currently studying at MIT, and one of my current classes, right, in all my spare time, right? Like, anyway, one of my current classes is on pricing. And one of the challenges is developing pricing models for companies that don't yet have their first client. So what I want to ask you is, what advice would you give to someone listening who doesn't yet have a first client that they can say, What problems have I solved for you?

Ari Galper 07:12
Okay, well, they have, the first step in any business you're going to create is to know who your market is, who's your ideal client? Right? That's like, step number one in any business model. So I have to assume at least that someone understands sort of what market they're going after. Once you understand the general zone where you're going after then you want to simply research by asking these folks in your industry, you know, this is our solution, what problems can you help, can it solve for you and try and get that from people. But really, the way to do it is to have people obviously, use your solution, and then once they use it, you can say, get some feedback on what problem's solved for you. So you're starting from that end of the spectrum, you start with research like that, feedback from people.

Susan Sly 08:03
That's a, that's huge. And that's a big thing where someone is nervous to get the feedback, right? A lot of people are in love with their product, because their product becomes their baby. And so it's like, oh, no one wants to be told your baby's ugly.

Ari Galper 08:18
That's why we're talking about the idea of being okay with the truth. 'cause your goal is the truth, not the sale. Your goal is to find out the truth of where you stand so you can optimize, make it better, make the connection because we're so in love with our own solution, we remove ourselves from the psychology of the person buying. And that's when we have two ships in the night crossing each other. We're like, Why didn't this work out? It was a perfect fit for us. Why do we lose them?

Susan Sly 08:45
Yeah, yeah. It's, it's very much reminiscent of going on a date. And you think the date was so fabulous. It's like, but I didn't get the call back. That's actually a story about my husband. So anyway. Let me, let me ask you this. So in, you know, in the world of sales right now, we're, it's a very, very interesting time. And I had a sales meeting at lunchtime, as we were talking about prior to, and the, we're talking about post COVID. And I have a funny question for you. Because, you know, we moved everything to virtual but now, sales meetings are starting to happen in person. So we walk into this restaurant, and one person I know, we've been friends for a few years, so I hug her. The other two people we've met virtually, and I'm like, do I go in for the handshake? Do I wave? What do I do? And so we're all awkward. And so we fist bump. And then we, the other gentleman, he was you know, he was from France. So I was like, Okay, well, fake air kiss, you know, whatever. I want to ask your opinion, digressing, just a little bit. Once that we get the meeting, What is your advice for this sort of like we're in COVID, we're not quite out of COVID. Like, what, what is the new, what are the new rules?

Ari Galper 10:09
Oh, look, we're talking about a virtual like, Zoom thing, how to begin to call like that? Are we talking about that? No, I'm

Susan Sly 10:15
talking about in person now. Like face to face? Wow, well, I

Ari Galper 10:19
guess we're at a lockdown yesterday. So we just came out of lockdown for last few months. So right now it's a bit of fist bumping, a bit less going on, because it was kind of nervous. But obviously, it depends on where you're at, and how comfortable you are with everyone in terms of the closest there, you know, and the kissing thing, you know, it's up to you on that one.

Susan Sly 10:38
It was from a distance. It was like, mwah, mwah, and we were laughing. But it's such a different time. And there, there are a lot of, you know, I look at a lot of people who are perhaps of a certain age, when they grew up with an iPad or a phone in their hand. That was like the generation after us. And I know anyone who's watching on YouTube, they're like, you two look so young. How is that possible? But no, anyway, um, but that generation after us, and I find that not for everyone, but for some people, they've lost that ability to connect human to human. And there's a notion that if I just do a really epic TikTok, I'm going to make millions of dollars. If I really figure out how to just message people on LinkedIn, something they haven't seen before, I'm going to be a success. What old fashioned sales, let's call them sales manners almost, are something that you feel should be relevant in today's culture that maybe we're not seeing as much?

Ari Galper 11:47
The world has changed and has become commoditized. Everyone is selling the same thing to someone else, everyone knows what it is already. It's hard to win the battle on having a unique product that no one knows about before. So with that assumption in mind, you only have one thing left, to cut noise. And that is a differentiate on how you sell. To be different how you show up. And what's interesting about this is, with all this happening to these different social media channels, and all that, is people are taking the old sales approach and pushing it through the new models. So that's why you have so much noise going on. Like in LinkedIn, you know, was Hi, and it's all this pitching going on in my inbox. I'm like, what's going on here? So you got to be careful not to transport your old mindset into the new mediums. You have to enter the conversation in these new mediums with a trust-based approach that basically is not pitching your solution but engaging them around being, here's the key word, being open to the idea of solving a problem in different ways. So it's about you being a problem solver, not being a pitch person. And that's how you cut the noise quickly.

Susan Sly 12:56
I love that, solving a problem in different ways. And I was thinking about a LinkedIn message I got. And it was, you know, just you know, one of those typical ones, it was like, Have you ever thought of starting a podcast? I'm like, um, I'm on almost episode 300, which gives me ahead of 90% of the people who are podcasting who haven't put a new episode out in the last 90 days. It's like, you know, do your homework, right?

Ari Galper 13:19
That's the equivalent of a cold call.

Susan Sly 13:22
Oh, we'll get into cold calls. I want to, I want to touch back on something you said about not being afraid to hear the truth. And before anyone becomes a guest on the show, we do our homework. And I read the story of you, you're on a call and you think that, you know, they think you've hung up, but you're still listening to them. And could you share that story and how you felt in that moment?

Ari Galper 13:51
Sure, that was the story to kick this whole revolution off 20 years ago when I was a sales manager at a software company. And we manage 18-20 at the time, and we lost the first online web tools track website behavior. Now it's called Google Analytics. But back then they actually cost money. And I, leads came across my desk with big opportunities. One call came in, I got the call, and a great opportunity, big company. The guy agrees on conference call and a live demo to see our product. They finally came Friday for coffee afternoon. I'm in a conference with my team, they're in the background listening in, speakerphone on the table, I dial the phone number, my guy says, hello, it's like hey, Ari, how's it going? Great. And he says to me, Ari, let us tell you who's on the phone with us today. I was like, Oh, great. Next thing I hear is, my name is Chris, I'm the CEO. I was like, Oh, this is good. My name is Mike, I'm head of IT. This is amazing. My name is Julia, I'm Head of Global Marketing. Great. I mean, everybody on this call was a decision maker. Like they're all there. So it's going to happen. It's gonna happen today. You know? So I introduced myself, so I give them the live demo with a web of our products, showing them how it all works, the statistics and all that. They're like, there is actually noise in the phone call. Oh, this is amazing. This is great. This is fantastic. They start asking me all kinds of questions. How does it work? How to install it? Of course, I held the answers. There was so much chemistry on this phone call 'cause it was like, a love fest on the phone. You know I'm talking about? Like it just felt, feels so right. No resistance. And the call goes by, an hour goes by, my guy says to me, Ari, this is great, we love it. Look, give us a call a couple weeks. Follow up with us and we'll move this thing forward. I was like, Oh, yes, it looks so good. And I said my goodbyes, took my hand, I reached for the speakerphone, end of the table, hit the off button. As a reach in for the off button, by complete accident, I hit the mute button instead. They're right next to each other and a small click happened. And they thought I hung up the phone. And that split second a voice inside of me is, Ari, go to the dark side. Be a fly on the wall. Go where no one's ever gone before in the world of sales. So I pulled my thumb back for a couple seconds. They started talking amongst themselves, the had guy left the call. So I know you know what the answer to this is, but, well, you expect things like, Hey, this is great. Let's move this thing forward. But let me tell you what this verbatim word for word. They said this, they said we're not going to go with him. Keep using him for more information, and make sure we shop someplace else cheaper. Knife in heart, twist. I was in a state of shock. I finally hit the off button. Out of the blue, I said to myself, what did I do wrong? I was professional. I was competent. I was trust based. And the first big epiphany hit me, that was this, somewhere along the way, it has become socially acceptable not to tell the truth to people who sell, right? And that became the whole wake up call. So this has got to change. I've got to unlock this game because it's so dehumanizing. It's so uncomfortable and should not be, should not be happening. That's why my whole Unlock The Game concept where the idea is trust first, sale second.

Susan Sly 17:03
Yeah. And that's why I want people to buy your book. Because, again, most people who are business owners are highly ADD. And I don't say that lightly. It's the truth, I'll be the first to confess that. But I was, before we started the show, I was sharing how I had been on the morning show in Australia, which is like their big version of like the, you know, Kelly, and I think Ryan or whatever it is, and, and you know, one of the things I was talking about is just how we're like, you know, we're thinking all these thoughts, like all the time, right? And 60,000 thoughts a day, 80% are negative, 80% of thoughts we thought the day before. And we are all over the map. And this book that I, one of the main things I love, it's like even if you read a myth a day, you're gonna come out better. Let me ask you, after you had your epiphany, which was preceded by a wall kicking moment, did you follow up with them?

Ari Galper 17:59
I see. I ended up quitting my job. And I left the company. And your question, I think is going to this question, which is, if I knew what I knew now, 20 years ago, what would I have changed? Yeah. And the answer to that is this, that I never would have had the call. Because on our first conversation, I would have gotten to the truth of where they were at in their process and what they were thinking. And that's part of my new book coming out next year called The One Call Sale, I'm working on right now. Which is how to compress a sales cycle from multiple steps into one single conversation. You're not subjected being dehumanizing and being rejected like that again.

Susan Sly 18:43
And it's that subtle art of, let's get to the point and decide. There was, I was in a situation, a sales situation. And all the audience knows. So I've built three award winning sales teams generating almost $2 billion in sales in three separate verticals. And I think at the stage of the game that I'm at, and that's why I love your book, is that I want, to start off, is there, is there, can we be honest with with each other? Is there chemistry here? Does this make sense? Right? And so from that vantage point, and also because no one's going to value your time if you don't value your tim. Right. And I think that's the other piece. So for another myth that you know, this fortune is in the follow up, right? And so many people, we know the statistics, you know that, what is it? 80% of sales are made after the fourth follow up, but 80% of sales people don't follow up four times. What do you want to say about that one?

Ari Galper 19:50
I would say if you're following up with people in itself, that means you didn't build enough trust with them at hello. The reason for following up is because you didn't build trust with them at the beginning. What I'm trying to say is, follow up doesn't have to happen anymore. If you're chasing ghosts, ghost people who say I'm interested, give me a call back, spend your day chasing people, pursuing them, you're now below them, you're lowering your authority. They don't want to be pursued, they don't want to be chased. They're looking for someone they can trust. So you have to turn the wheels around a bit and head back and go ask yourself this question, How did I get here? How come I'm chasing them right now? Why don't we get to a yes or no earlier on? And that's the big divide that separates those who are open to evolving and those who distinct over time.

Susan Sly 20:49
And you know, someone might say to that, I love that, some sales cycles might be longer. So when you're talking about a $50,000,000, 5-year, you know, deal versus like someone buying a new Toyota Camry or used cars are hot commodity, right? Like five year old Toyota Camry. So what about the person who says that, what about my industry? The sales cycle is two years.

Ari Galper 21:15
Sure. Yeah, I'm not suggesting a signed contract on one call. But I'm suggesting a commitment on the first call to a scheduled, not follow up, but to a scheduled next step in the process towards the goal. And see what happens mostly is, we have a first call with somebody, lots of chemistry, we're like, ooh, and we say, great. Let's catch up. And that's couple of weeks, I'll give you a call then. And they're off the calendar. They go, they fall off the cracks. Now you're chasing them. That's where it all goes bad. And I tell my clients, make sure you have a calendar relationship with your prospects. You're by the appointment only business like a doctor. Doctors only see you by appointment, they don't chase you. You do the same. Make sure your model is designed so that they respect you enough to schedule the next call with you.

Susan Sly 22:13
I love that. And I was thinking, the reason I was smiling is because I was thinking, Jerry Maguire, you had me at hello versus the movie, He's Just Not That Into You. I want to ask you, in this book. Sure. Adorable lessons from Toby. So we're both parents. And one of the things that struck me is the profound wisdom of a two year old, right? And I once wrote to my list. I was talking about things I've learned from my daughter in kindergarten. And then you were so generous, and you send this book to me, and I'm reading well, plus, I'm madly in love with the photo. Like, every time I've looked at this photo, my kids are like, Why do you keep looking at that bucket smiling mommy? Like what is up with that? But talk about lessons from Toby.

Ari Galper 23:07
Sure. So when my son was born, after about a day after being born, he was born, we were told that he had Down syndrome. And at first we know what that meant to our lives. We realized what a gift we had on our hands. If you know someone that has Down syndrome, we know they're very special people. They're full of love. They have no hidden agenda. They're transparent. They connect. Everything we're trying to become, they have. Like they're the role models. And I, he inspired me so much that I wrote this book about him called Lessons from Toby, which really is a lesson every day of the year to remind yourself that your goal is to be in your own truth. Be authentic, be centered, don't play the game others expect you to play. So what happens when we get in the sales world, we go to work during the day. We put, we call sales armor on around us. We keep ourselves from the bullets, we're ready for the battle. But he's not doing that. He comes pure. And I said to myself, gosh, why can't we be like that? So he's kind of the role model here. That's why I wrote the book about him. And he inspires me so much to my clients.

Susan Sly 24:11
Well, I know you're not expecting me to ask this question. But this is the final question. And before I do, and I want everyone to stay and listen to this question because none of you all are expecting me to ask this question because this just happened in our lives. But everyone needs to go to www.unlockthegame.com, unlock the game.com and if you're someone, and my listeners know I'm not a person who endorses lately, but I can endorse, this is, I can endorse these books. My, one of my god children found out that her first baby she's expecting, newly married, has Down Syndrome. And on that very same day her husband, he was n engineer, got laid off from his job. Young couple, faith filled. But I would love for you, because they're going to get this episode, I would love for you to speak to them right now. What do you want to say to them?

Ari Galper 25:16
I think you need to embrace the gift that God has given you. Like, tear up here. And realize that you are in journey that's very special. And that you have to really start to begin to appreciate, you were given a gift. And these kids will teach you so much that you wouldn't have known from any other type of child, that'd be special. And you'll always appreciate them. So you're in good hands, and you're been chosen for a reason.

Susan Sly 25:44
Well, thank you, Ari, for that. And Maria and John, we love you so much. You've got this, you know. And Ari, thank you so much for being here. You truly are a gift. And thank you for your message. And thank you for all of the people you're supporting. Because sales is the lifeblood of any business. And without people like yourself who are teaching people how to do it the right way, it's just not going to happen for the majority of companies out there. So thank you so much for being here.

Ari Galper 26:17
Thank you for having me, it's a pleasure. Well, all right, well, thanks

Susan Sly 26:20
Ari. Thanks everyone for being here. And I would just encourage you to make sure you share this episode with anyone you know who's thinking of starting a business, has a business. It's Raw and Real Entrepreneurship, we get raw and real. So with that, God bless. Go rock your day, and I will see you in a future episode.
00:00
That's what real trust is. I tell my clients fall out of love with your solution and fall in love with your clients' problems. Because if you can connect that deep level with them, they're gonna say themselves, she just gets me. Something about her just feels right. And that feeling, we have to create with people.

00:20
Welcome to the Susan Sly Project where entrepreneurs rule, startups launch, and the side hustle becomes the main hustle. Ladies and gentlemen, your host, Susan Sly.

Susan Sly 00:32
Well, hey, everyone, I hope you're having an amazing day, wherever you are in the world. And I have a question for you as an entrepreneur. Someone thinking about being an entrepreneur, someone thinking about getting back into entrepreneurship, when I say the following word, how does it make you feel, and that word is sales. So you're either like, Yay, I love selling, or I do selling because I have to, or number three, you're like, I can't stand sales. Well, guess what? You're in business. Yes, nod your head, it means you have to know how to sell. So we are so fortunate to have the world's number one authority, not number two or number three, number one authority in trust based selling. And check this out. He's appeared in CEO magazine, Sky News, Forbes, Inc Magazine, the Australian Financial Review, amongst others. He has clients in 35 countries. He is an amazing author. I have his books right here on my desk, and we're gonna dive into those in just a moment. And on top of it, he's really been able to unlock the myths behind sales. So I have to tell you, you guys know I've had a lot of incredible guests. But I am super excited about this gentleman today. So wherever you are, whatever you're doing, just put your hands in the air. And let's celebrate the fact that the amazing Ari Galper is here. So Ari, I'm so happy to have you here. You're coming live from Sydney. So it's great to have you.

Ari Galper 01:58
Thank you, Susan, really excited to be here as well, appreciate the intro.

Susan Sly 02:02
I want to just jump right into the first mess. Right? So one of the things that you discuss in your book, Unlock The Sales Game, which you know, I'll give a shameless plug to you, because not only have I read hundreds of books on business, but I've written books on business as well. I love how condensed this is, and to the point, and one of the first myths is sales is a numbers game. And we hear that all the time. Can you talk about why is that a myth?

Ari Galper 02:32
Sure. So we grew up of course, in sales world where it's all about how many contacts you make more calls you make, the more opportunities you get. That's the concept, the more activity you get more results you get. Well, we discovered this economy now where the world's changed, it's not about how many contacts you make anymore. It's about how deep you go on each conversation, how good you are trust building, not how good you are, how many contacts you make. I just spoke a few minutes ago before our call with a head of sales of a big company. And his challeng is his whole team's feels like their goal is to make as many cars as possible during the day. They don't understand they can make a lot less and just connect correctly and make that trust happen. And then their numbers will fly off the roof. So it's a real mindset shift around that myth.

Susan Sly 03:17
Mm hmm. I love that. And do you think in your opinion, that people just aren't spending enough time building trust on the front end?

Ari Galper 03:26
I think they don't know how. I think they know how to build relationships, meaning the whole rapport thing. Oh, how's it going? Nice to meet you. How are you? The whole fake rapport thing? You know, like, speak like your friend first but they don't want to become your friend, kind of thing. We learn from the old sales gurus. I think real, deep trust is a different skill. It's a skill you have to learn. Even if you've been in sales for a long time, that requires a shift in mindset, and some new languaging around that we're talking about today.

Susan Sly 03:56
Yeah, well, I definitely I want to, I want to jump right into that point. So what is you know, what is the the number one way that someone can build trust, especially with someone that they're just meeting for the first time. Because a lot of people are intimidated? Right?

Ari Galper 04:12
Totally. And the real bomb I'll drop to get going here is that you have to shift your thinking away from your own goal. Let go of the outcome, let go of the sale and start the conversation wrapped around what their problem is. It's like a doctor-patient relationship. Right? When you see a doctor, they don't try and become your friend. The first thing they say to you is, where does it hurt, right? So we have to be able to engage around their issues. And if you stay in the role as long as you can, and they're going to come back to you and say to you, how can you help me? That's what real trust is. I tell my clients fall out of love with your solution and fall in love with your clients' problems. Because if you can connect that deep level with them, they're gonna say themselves, she just gets me. Something about her just feels right. And that feeling we have to create with people.

Susan Sly 05:04
I love that. And that aspect of knowing your client's pain, right? Research is is critical. And Harvey Mackay who's my personal mentor, right, had designed the Mackay 66, which I know you're familiar with. And he's always said, Never go into a sales meeting without doing your research. So do you have things that you suggest your clients do in terms of researching before they get that cherished meeting?

Ari Galper 05:36
Well, look, it's one thing to research the client themselves in terms of their industry, what they do, but you have to at least know what are the three core problems that you solve for your market. Right? And here's how you can figure it out quickly, reverse engineer, you simply ask your current clients this question, what three problems went away when you use our solution? What problems do we help you solve? What goes away? When you, when you understand what the issues are from their point of view, in their own words, that's how you anchor your relationship with them in the process around their problems. So it's one thing to know about what business they do. But you also have to know what problems your solution solves for them, which is a bit reverse thinking, because we're so used to talking about the benefits, how it works, it's amazing. Oh, my God, you're gonna love it. But don't think about well, what problems that you solve. That's the real shift we're making here.

Susan Sly 06:29
That's huge. And it's that, the power of doing the prep, asking the questions, what three problems? And what advice would you give to someone who's newer to the market? And so I'm, Ari and I are new friends. Right? So what you might not know is I'm currently studying at MIT, and one of my current classes, right, in all my spare time, right? Like, anyway, one of my current classes is on pricing. And one of the challenges is developing pricing models for companies that don't yet have their first client. So what I want to ask you is, what advice would you give to someone listening who doesn't yet have a first client that they can say, What problems have I solved for you?

Ari Galper 07:12
Okay, well, they have, the first step in any business you're going to create is to know who your market is, who's your ideal client? Right? That's like, step number one in any business model. So I have to assume at least that someone understands sort of what market they're going after. Once you understand the general zone where you're going after then you want to simply research by asking these folks in your industry, you know, this is our solution, what problems can you help, can it solve for you and try and get that from people. But really, the way to do it is to have people obviously, use your solution, and then once they use it, you can say, get some feedback on what problem's solved for you. So you're starting from that end of the spectrum, you start with research like that, feedback from people.

Susan Sly 08:03
That's a, that's huge. And that's a big thing where someone is nervous to get the feedback, right? A lot of people are in love with their product, because their product becomes their baby. And so it's like, oh, no one wants to be told your baby's ugly.

Ari Galper 08:18
That's why we're talking about the idea of being okay with the truth. 'cause your goal is the truth, not the sale. Your goal is to find out the truth of where you stand so you can optimize, make it better, make the connection because we're so in love with our own solution, we remove ourselves from the psychology of the person buying. And that's when we have two ships in the night crossing each other. We're like, Why didn't this work out? It was a perfect fit for us. Why do we lose them?

Susan Sly 08:45
Yeah, yeah. It's, it's very much reminiscent of going on a date. And you think the date was so fabulous. It's like, but I didn't get the call back. That's actually a story about my husband. So anyway. Let me, let me ask you this. So in, you know, in the world of sales right now, we're, it's a very, very interesting time. And I had a sales meeting at lunchtime, as we were talking about prior to, and the, we're talking about post COVID. And I have a funny question for you. Because, you know, we moved everything to virtual but now, sales meetings are starting to happen in person. So we walk into this restaurant, and one person I know, we've been friends for a few years, so I hug her. The other two people we've met virtually, and I'm like, do I go in for the handshake? Do I wave? What do I do? And so we're all awkward. And so we fist bump. And then we, the other gentleman, he was you know, he was from France. So I was like, Okay, well, fake air kiss, you know, whatever. I want to ask your opinion, digressing, just a little bit. Once that we get the meeting, What is your advice for this sort of like we're in COVID, we're not quite out of COVID. Like, what, what is the new, what are the new rules?

Ari Galper 10:09
Oh, look, we're talking about a virtual like, Zoom thing, how to begin to call like that? Are we talking about that? No, I'm

Susan Sly 10:15
talking about in person now. Like face to face? Wow, well, I

Ari Galper 10:19
guess we're at a lockdown yesterday. So we just came out of lockdown for last few months. So right now it's a bit of fist bumping, a bit less going on, because it was kind of nervous. But obviously, it depends on where you're at, and how comfortable you are with everyone in terms of the closest there, you know, and the kissing thing, you know, it's up to you on that one.

Susan Sly 10:38
It was from a distance. It was like, mwah, mwah, and we were laughing. But it's such a different time. And there, there are a lot of, you know, I look at a lot of people who are perhaps of a certain age, when they grew up with an iPad or a phone in their hand. That was like the generation after us. And I know anyone who's watching on YouTube, they're like, you two look so young. How is that possible? But no, anyway, um, but that generation after us, and I find that not for everyone, but for some people, they've lost that ability to connect human to human. And there's a notion that if I just do a really epic TikTok, I'm going to make millions of dollars. If I really figure out how to just message people on LinkedIn, something they haven't seen before, I'm going to be a success. What old fashioned sales, let's call them sales manners almost, are something that you feel should be relevant in today's culture that maybe we're not seeing as much?

Ari Galper 11:47
The world has changed and has become commoditized. Everyone is selling the same thing to someone else, everyone knows what it is already. It's hard to win the battle on having a unique product that no one knows about before. So with that assumption in mind, you only have one thing left, to cut noise. And that is a differentiate on how you sell. To be different how you show up. And what's interesting about this is, with all this happening to these different social media channels, and all that, is people are taking the old sales approach and pushing it through the new models. So that's why you have so much noise going on. Like in LinkedIn, you know, was Hi, and it's all this pitching going on in my inbox. I'm like, what's going on here? So you got to be careful not to transport your old mindset into the new mediums. You have to enter the conversation in these new mediums with a trust-based approach that basically is not pitching your solution but engaging them around being, here's the key word, being open to the idea of solving a problem in different ways. So it's about you being a problem solver, not being a pitch person. And that's how you cut the noise quickly.

Susan Sly 12:56
I love that, solving a problem in different ways. And I was thinking about a LinkedIn message I got. And it was, you know, just you know, one of those typical ones, it was like, Have you ever thought of starting a podcast? I'm like, um, I'm on almost episode 300, which gives me ahead of 90% of the people who are podcasting who haven't put a new episode out in the last 90 days. It's like, you know, do your homework, right?

Ari Galper 13:19
That's the equivalent of a cold call.

Susan Sly 13:22
Oh, we'll get into cold calls. I want to, I want to touch back on something you said about not being afraid to hear the truth. And before anyone becomes a guest on the show, we do our homework. And I read the story of you, you're on a call and you think that, you know, they think you've hung up, but you're still listening to them. And could you share that story and how you felt in that moment?

Ari Galper 13:51
Sure, that was the story to kick this whole revolution off 20 years ago when I was a sales manager at a software company. And we manage 18-20 at the time, and we lost the first online web tools track website behavior. Now it's called Google Analytics. But back then they actually cost money. And I, leads came across my desk with big opportunities. One call came in, I got the call, and a great opportunity, big company. The guy agrees on conference call and a live demo to see our product. They finally came Friday for coffee afternoon. I'm in a conference with my team, they're in the background listening in, speakerphone on the table, I dial the phone number, my guy says, hello, it's like hey, Ari, how's it going? Great. And he says to me, Ari, let us tell you who's on the phone with us today. I was like, Oh, great. Next thing I hear is, my name is Chris, I'm the CEO. I was like, Oh, this is good. My name is Mike, I'm head of IT. This is amazing. My name is Julia, I'm Head of Global Marketing. Great. I mean, everybody on this call was a decision maker. Like they're all there. So it's going to happen. It's gonna happen today. You know? So I introduced myself, so I give them the live demo with a web of our products, showing them how it all works, the statistics and all that. They're like, there is actually noise in the phone call. Oh, this is amazing. This is great. This is fantastic. They start asking me all kinds of questions. How does it work? How to install it? Of course, I held the answers. There was so much chemistry on this phone call 'cause it was like, a love fest on the phone. You know I'm talking about? Like it just felt, feels so right. No resistance. And the call goes by, an hour goes by, my guy says to me, Ari, this is great, we love it. Look, give us a call a couple weeks. Follow up with us and we'll move this thing forward. I was like, Oh, yes, it looks so good. And I said my goodbyes, took my hand, I reached for the speakerphone, end of the table, hit the off button. As a reach in for the off button, by complete accident, I hit the mute button instead. They're right next to each other and a small click happened. And they thought I hung up the phone. And that split second a voice inside of me is, Ari, go to the dark side. Be a fly on the wall. Go where no one's ever gone before in the world of sales. So I pulled my thumb back for a couple seconds. They started talking amongst themselves, the had guy left the call. So I know you know what the answer to this is, but, well, you expect things like, Hey, this is great. Let's move this thing forward. But let me tell you what this verbatim word for word. They said this, they said we're not going to go with him. Keep using him for more information, and make sure we shop someplace else cheaper. Knife in heart, twist. I was in a state of shock. I finally hit the off button. Out of the blue, I said to myself, what did I do wrong? I was professional. I was competent. I was trust based. And the first big epiphany hit me, that was this, somewhere along the way, it has become socially acceptable not to tell the truth to people who sell, right? And that became the whole wake up call. So this has got to change. I've got to unlock this game because it's so dehumanizing. It's so uncomfortable and should not be, should not be happening. That's why my whole Unlock The Game concept where the idea is trust first, sale second.

Susan Sly 17:03
Yeah. And that's why I want people to buy your book. Because, again, most people who are business owners are highly ADD. And I don't say that lightly. It's the truth, I'll be the first to confess that. But I was, before we started the show, I was sharing how I had been on the morning show in Australia, which is like their big version of like the, you know, Kelly, and I think Ryan or whatever it is, and, and you know, one of the things I was talking about is just how we're like, you know, we're thinking all these thoughts, like all the time, right? And 60,000 thoughts a day, 80% are negative, 80% of thoughts we thought the day before. And we are all over the map. And this book that I, one of the main things I love, it's like even if you read a myth a day, you're gonna come out better. Let me ask you, after you had your epiphany, which was preceded by a wall kicking moment, did you follow up with them?

Ari Galper 17:59
I see. I ended up quitting my job. And I left the company. And your question, I think is going to this question, which is, if I knew what I knew now, 20 years ago, what would I have changed? Yeah. And the answer to that is this, that I never would have had the call. Because on our first conversation, I would have gotten to the truth of where they were at in their process and what they were thinking. And that's part of my new book coming out next year called The One Call Sale, I'm working on right now. Which is how to compress a sales cycle from multiple steps into one single conversation. You're not subjected being dehumanizing and being rejected like that again.

Susan Sly 18:43
And it's that subtle art of, let's get to the point and decide. There was, I was in a situation, a sales situation. And all the audience knows. So I've built three award winning sales teams generating almost $2 billion in sales in three separate verticals. And I think at the stage of the game that I'm at, and that's why I love your book, is that I want, to start off, is there, is there, can we be honest with with each other? Is there chemistry here? Does this make sense? Right? And so from that vantage point, and also because no one's going to value your time if you don't value your tim. Right. And I think that's the other piece. So for another myth that you know, this fortune is in the follow up, right? And so many people, we know the statistics, you know that, what is it? 80% of sales are made after the fourth follow up, but 80% of sales people don't follow up four times. What do you want to say about that one?

Ari Galper 19:50
I would say if you're following up with people in itself, that means you didn't build enough trust with them at hello. The reason for following up is because you didn't build trust with them at the beginning. What I'm trying to say is, follow up doesn't have to happen anymore. If you're chasing ghosts, ghost people who say I'm interested, give me a call back, spend your day chasing people, pursuing them, you're now below them, you're lowering your authority. They don't want to be pursued, they don't want to be chased. They're looking for someone they can trust. So you have to turn the wheels around a bit and head back and go ask yourself this question, How did I get here? How come I'm chasing them right now? Why don't we get to a yes or no earlier on? And that's the big divide that separates those who are open to evolving and those who distinct over time.

Susan Sly 20:49
And you know, someone might say to that, I love that, some sales cycles might be longer. So when you're talking about a $50,000,000, 5-year, you know, deal versus like someone buying a new Toyota Camry or used cars are hot commodity, right? Like five year old Toyota Camry. So what about the person who says that, what about my industry? The sales cycle is two years.

Ari Galper 21:15
Sure. Yeah, I'm not suggesting a signed contract on one call. But I'm suggesting a commitment on the first call to a scheduled, not follow up, but to a scheduled next step in the process towards the goal. And see what happens mostly is, we have a first call with somebody, lots of chemistry, we're like, ooh, and we say, great. Let's catch up. And that's couple of weeks, I'll give you a call then. And they're off the calendar. They go, they fall off the cracks. Now you're chasing them. That's where it all goes bad. And I tell my clients, make sure you have a calendar relationship with your prospects. You're by the appointment only business like a doctor. Doctors only see you by appointment, they don't chase you. You do the same. Make sure your model is designed so that they respect you enough to schedule the next call with you.

Susan Sly 22:13
I love that. And I was thinking, the reason I was smiling is because I was thinking, Jerry Maguire, you had me at hello versus the movie, He's Just Not That Into You. I want to ask you, in this book. Sure. Adorable lessons from Toby. So we're both parents. And one of the things that struck me is the profound wisdom of a two year old, right? And I once wrote to my list. I was talking about things I've learned from my daughter in kindergarten. And then you were so generous, and you send this book to me, and I'm reading well, plus, I'm madly in love with the photo. Like, every time I've looked at this photo, my kids are like, Why do you keep looking at that bucket smiling mommy? Like what is up with that? But talk about lessons from Toby.

Ari Galper 23:07
Sure. So when my son was born, after about a day after being born, he was born, we were told that he had Down syndrome. And at first we know what that meant to our lives. We realized what a gift we had on our hands. If you know someone that has Down syndrome, we know they're very special people. They're full of love. They have no hidden agenda. They're transparent. They connect. Everything we're trying to become, they have. Like they're the role models. And I, he inspired me so much that I wrote this book about him called Lessons from Toby, which really is a lesson every day of the year to remind yourself that your goal is to be in your own truth. Be authentic, be centered, don't play the game others expect you to play. So what happens when we get in the sales world, we go to work during the day. We put, we call sales armor on around us. We keep ourselves from the bullets, we're ready for the battle. But he's not doing that. He comes pure. And I said to myself, gosh, why can't we be like that? So he's kind of the role model here. That's why I wrote the book about him. And he inspires me so much to my clients.

Susan Sly 24:11
Well, I know you're not expecting me to ask this question. But this is the final question. And before I do, and I want everyone to stay and listen to this question because none of you all are expecting me to ask this question because this just happened in our lives. But everyone needs to go to www.unlockthegame.com, unlock the game.com and if you're someone, and my listeners know I'm not a person who endorses lately, but I can endorse, this is, I can endorse these books. My, one of my god children found out that her first baby she's expecting, newly married, has Down Syndrome. And on that very same day her husband, he was n engineer, got laid off from his job. Young couple, faith filled. But I would love for you, because they're going to get this episode, I would love for you to speak to them right now. What do you want to say to them?

Ari Galper 25:16
I think you need to embrace the gift that God has given you. Like, tear up here. And realize that you are in journey that's very special. And that you have to really start to begin to appreciate, you were given a gift. And these kids will teach you so much that you wouldn't have known from any other type of child, that'd be special. And you'll always appreciate them. So you're in good hands, and you're been chosen for a reason.

Susan Sly 25:44
Well, thank you, Ari, for that. And Maria and John, we love you so much. You've got this, you know. And Ari, thank you so much for being here. You truly are a gift. And thank you for your message. And thank you for all of the people you're supporting. Because sales is the lifeblood of any business. And without people like yourself who are teaching people how to do it the right way, it's just not going to happen for the majority of companies out there. So thank you so much for being here.

Ari Galper 26:17
Thank you for having me, it's a pleasure. Well, all right, well, thanks

Susan Sly 26:20
Ari. Thanks everyone for being here. And I would just encourage you to make sure you share this episode with anyone you know who's thinking of starting a business, has a business. It's Raw and Real Entrepreneurship, we get raw and real. So with that, God bless. Go rock your day, and I will see you in a future episode.