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So you want to get into Real Estate Investing but don’t know where to start? Well, this episode is for you!

Learn the secrets from Mark Podolsky (AKA The Land Geek), the country’s most trusted and foremost authority on buying and selling raw, undeveloped land. Understand how land is being treated as a commodity and what it means for you, find out where opportunities exist, and more.

For almost two decades, Mark has been actively investing in real estate and raw land, and has completed over 5,000 unique transactions.

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– Mark Podolsky

Raw and Real Entrepreneurship with Mark Podolsky

Topics covered in the interview

Passive income with land
Land as commodity
Best land opportunities
Advice in getting started in real estate
Land in metaverse

Mark Podolsky's Bio

Mark J. Podolsky (AKA The Land Geek) is widely considered the country’s most trusted and foremost authority on buying and selling raw, undeveloped land within the United States. For almost two decades, Mark has been actively investing in real estate and raw land, and has completed over 5,000 unique transactions.

Mark’s company, Frontier Equity Properties, LLC, is an A+ rated BBB real estate company. Mark has achieved this level of success largely due to his core business philosophy – “Happy Customers Guaranteed.” Mark is the host of one of the top rated podcasts in the Investing Category on iTunes aptly titled The Best Passive Income Model and The Art of Passive Income. He is also the host of the Land Geek Podcast.

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Show Notes

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Mark Podolsky 00:00
You have to go through some, you have to give some data point. So my first data point is, what did it sell for in the past? Then I'm just going to divide by four. But as far as you know, selling it then, well, I just look at time value of money. And if I'm going to hold this property over the next 5, 10 years, I just do a simple calculation. I know I want a margin on terms to be 800 to 1200%, on average, cash 300 to 500%.

Susan Sly 00:42
What's up everyone, wherever you are in the world, I hope you're having an amazing day. And I have a question for you. Have you ever considered investing in real estate? Maybe you've thought, oh my gosh, Susan, I don't have millions of dollars or I wouldn't know where to begin or I don't have my real estate license. Well, the good news is we're about to dispel a lot of myths and have a lot of fun and even talk about real estate that you can't put your physical foot on. Today, my guest has been featured in NBC, an entrepreneur, he is widely considered the country's most trusted and foremost authority on buying and selling raw, undeveloped land. And we're going to talk about what that is within the United States. He's completed over 5000 transactions, which is amazing. And just to give you perspective, in the non commercial real estate world, in the, in residential, most realtors don't even do two transaction. So that's just you know, those who get licensed. His company, Frontier Equity Properties is a, triple A rated with the Better Business Bureau and it's, which is just amazing. And his philosophy is happy customers guaranteed. So my guest today is the land geek, also known in his non superhero persona as Mark Podolsky. So Mark, it's so great to have you on Raw and Real Entrepreneurship. Thanks for being here.

Mark Podolsky 02:05
Susan Sly, thank you so much. I'm so excited to get raw and get real and talk about entrepreneurship, which is one of my favorite subjects.

Susan Sly 02:14
Let's do it. We're going to talk about land in the metaverse today. But let's talk about land in the real verse, or as one Facebook executive calls it the meat verse. But let's, let's talk about that. So raw, undeveloped land, can you define that for people?

Mark Podolsky 02:31
Sure, it's raw, undeveloped land is when you're on the highway, and you look around, you're like, Oh, look at all this land. That's raw, undeveloped land. So think about hour from the city, two hours, rural land, is really what I focus on. And if you've ever been a landlord, you've ever had to deal with a tenant, you know it's no fun dealing with something physical. You know, three in the morning, the roof is leaking, or the toilet broke, and you have to go and fix it. So what's nice about being a landlord is the passive income. So for me, I thought, Well, why can't we do it with an asset that lasts forever? Nothing to maintain, nothing to protect, and you can't destroy it. And so that is really the model that I use. It's a one time sale, we get passive income every single month. We don't have to deal with the headaches. No tenants, no termites, no toilets, no trash. And so the game we play is we create enough of what I call land notes, where a passive income exceeds our fixed expenses. And then we're working because we want to not because we have to.

Susan Sly 03:49
And this is sort of a mindset shift, because so many real estate investors or people who want to be real invest, real estate investors, they watch a lot of HDTV, maybe that is me, I'll confess. And, you know, they're thinking, Okay, I've got to, like flip a house or I've got to have a physical house with tenants in order to have passive real estate in, or passive income in real estate. But what I'm hearing you say is, you can have passive income with land. How does that work? Okay, so Susan, where do you live? I live in Scottsdale, Arizona.

Mark Podolsky 04:23
Oh, okay. So we're neighbors. Alright, so I'm gonna assume you own 10 acres of raw land in Texas. And you owe, let's say, $150 in back taxes. So you're advertising two important things to me. Number one, you have no emotional attachment to that raw land, you're, Arizona property taxes. And number two, you're distressed financially in some weird way. Because we don't pay for things. We don't value them in the same way and you haven't paid your property taxes. As a result kind of treasure is, you're noticing, Susan, let's get raw, let's get real. Don't pay these taxes, you're going to lose this property to tax lien or tax deed investor. So I'm what going to do is look at the comparable sales on your 10 acre parcel. For last 12 to 18 months, I will take the lowest comparable sale and divide by four. And that's what Warren Buffett would call a 300% margin of safety. So I'm gonna send you an actual offer on your 10 acres. Let's assume that the lowest comparable sale is 10,000, send you an offer for $2,500 you accept it, because for you $2,500 is better than nothing. Now in reality, 3 to 5% of people accept my quote unquote, top dollar off. Now once you accept it, I have to go through due diligence or in depth research. I have to confirm you saw the property. I have to confirm back taxes are only $150. I have to make sure there's no breaks in the chain of title. There's no liens or encumbrances. I want to know what the roads are like. I want to know what you can do around there. What's recreational, what's, what were the restrictions? This whole big property checklist. Now, since I'm only investing $2,500, I'm gonna outsource that to my team in the Philippines. It's 11 bucks for them to do all that, they're connected to American Title Company. But it's 5000 or more, I will take the risk. I'll close it traditionally through a title company, but everything checks out. And now I'm buy that property from you for $2,500. And Susan, I'm going to make it cash flow, just like for those rental homes, 30 days or less because I have a built in, best buyer. You know who it is? Who? The neighbors. The neighbors, spotted out neighbor letters say, hey, here's your opportunity. Protect your view, protect your privacy, protect your views. Know your neighbor. Oftentimes neighbors will buy it. If they pass, I've got my buyers list. My buyers list passes a good route to a website you may have heard of, it's called Craigslist, and most trafficked website in the United states. A good one I know you've heard of it's called meta, buy sell groups, the marketplace or Facebook, either one. And then I'll go to lands. So,,,, These are platforms that people buy and sell raw land all the time. But the magic is my pricing. So all I'm going to ask for is a $2,500 downpayment to control this 10 acre parcel, and then I'll make it a car payment for 449 a month, 9% interest in the next 84 months. So I will get my money out on the down payment, but I could go 6 to 10 months out. And then I'm going 449 a month every single month. 9% interest, next 84 months, no renters, no rehabs, no renovations, no rodents, and because I'm not dealing with a tenant, I'm exempt from Dodd Frank RESPA, and the SAFE Act as owners real estate legislation. That's how I do it.

Susan Sly 07:49
Mark, I love that. And I love that you love alliteration too. You know, I love, rodents, renter's, rehab. That's the best. Alliteration is the best, you know, I just saying that. Since I've an alliterative name and I'm very biased about alliteration. The, the, I have never thought about investing in land that way. Because the way I was brought up is the buy and hold real estate model. My grandmother owned farmland, she had rental properties. My dad has rental property. So that's how I was brought up to think about it. Not in this way. Let's talk about land as a commodity, because this is Raw and Real Entrepreneurship. Bill Gates is buying up a ton of farmland. What's your take on that?

Mark Podolsky 08:33
So, you know, if you're Warren Buffett, you're Bill Gates, you're Jeff Bezos, Ted Turner, these are the largest land owners in the country. So billionaires are buying up productive farmland. And again, it's an asset that lasts forever. So it's a general, generational asset. And it's clipping a coupon. It's like buying a bond at 8%. It's great for them. Very low risk. It's better than, you know, some other investing method. And they're doing good for the American farmer, right? We're not interested in a percent, we're interested in, our average return on investment is 300 to 1,000%. That's what we like to do. And that's what we're going after.

Susan Sly 09:16
Nice. Those are, those are very attractive numbers. There's no question. Where do you think the best land opportunities are right now?

Mark Podolsky 09:25
So Susan, let's be honest, right? Nobody wakes up and thinks, someone says, boy let's roll a land in Iowa today. Unless you live in Iowa.

Susan Sly 09:33
Or you're from Iowa originally.

Mark Podolsky 09:36
Or you're from Iowa. So you know, Iowa. That, like that's great, but your biggest fire pool, they would have been Arizona, they would be in Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico, Texas, California, Washington, Oregon, Nevada, and then Florida as well. So the sunshine states, fast growing states with, you know, a ton of inexpensive raw land. That's really focused. Not to say I won't do a deal inTennessee. I'll do till North Carolina, Missouri, you know, very pretty areas, but your biggest buyer pool is going to be in those sunshine states.

Susan Sly 10:16
Well, and how do you find the, the, the landowners who are defaulting? Is there a public database for them? Or I know you have a course we're gonna talk about a free course that we're gonna give people but how do you find them? I'm so curious.

Mark Podolsky 10:30
Yeah, so it's all public, right? So you just go to the county treasurer, or you can go to the county assessor, and ask for the real property list of everybody that owns property in that county. And then you'll scrub that list. So let's say that, the used code is VL for vacant land. So you just do a, an Excel scrub, now you've got all the vacant land properties, you're going to do one more scrub, because if we're sending out offers, I don't want to send somebody the same offer of 40 acres as five acres because that 40 acre person is gonna send you back glitter in the mail. So then we're going to price by list by assessor's parcel number, subdivision, which kind of brings up into the acreage as well. And that's gonna help us with due diligence as well.

Susan Sly 11:12
So how did you get started in this business?

Mark Podolsky 11:15
So I was a miserable, micromanaged, 45 minute commute to work and back, investment banker specializing in mergers and acquisitions with private equity groups. And Susan, it got so bad for me, I wouldn't get the Sunday blues, anticipating Monday coming around. I get the Friday blues, anticipating the weekend going by really fast and heavy back to work on Monday. So my firm hires this guy. And he's telling me that as a side hustle, he's buying up raw land, pennies on the dollar. He's flipping them online and making a 300% return on his investment. A system look at companies all day long. And a great company, great, has 15% EBITDA margins, or free cash flow. Average company's 10%. I look at companies, they have less than 10%. So I don't believe it. I've got three grand saved up for car repairs. I go to New Mexico with him, I do exactly what he tells me to do. I buy up 10 Half Acre parcels and average price of $300 each. I put them online, they all sell for an average of $1,200 each. It worked. I took all that money, went to another auction in Arizona, which is where I live. And this is 2000, there's no one in the room. I have lots of acreage for like nothing. I made over 90 grand on this one auction. So I go to my wife, honey, I'm gonna quit my job, become a full time land investor, and she's pregnant. She's like, Absolutely not. So I said, okay, so it took me about 18 months for the land investing income to exceed the investment banking income. And then I quit. I've been doing it full time ever since and I love it.

Susan Sly 12:52
Well, since you came from the ibanking world, and as the Co CEO, Co Founder of Radius, I deal with a lot of ibankers and there are some great bankers out there, there are humans behind that. But my condolences to you, and I get it, that world you came from and I can get that, that frustration, my husband's a CPA. And so I get it. The-

Mark Podolsky 13:13
Look, if you want to talk about spreadsheets, we can all day long.

Susan Sly 13:16
Well, and I think there's that aspect for you and business doesn't run, the listeners know, I always say this, business doesn't run without accountants and attorneys and make friends with your accountants and attorneys. I've more attorneys than handbags Mark, honestly. So the, but to be able to look at land and assess it from afar, How do you do that? How can you really discern what the value is? There's this, I can't remember who said it, oh, you've got to go walk the land, you've got to like, put the dirt in your hand. You're not doing that clearly. Right? And so-- no,

Mark Podolsky 13:51
no, I haven't looked at piece of raw land. I can't tell you when, I outsource all that. So we'll do like, fo 50 bucks a local Craigslist gig in this area I'm familiar with, give my property report, have them shoot video, take photos, and just let me know. Like because, you know, what are the neighbors doing? Are they dumping? How far from the nearest hospital, Walmart, McDonald's? All those things. So basically, you hit the nail on the head. What's great about the land business, and what's terrible about the land business is no one knows what the hell it's worth. It's an inefficient market. So essentially, you have to go through some, you have to give some data points. So my first data point is, well what did it sell for in the past? Then I'm just going to divide by four. But as far as you know, selling it then, well, I just look at time value of money. And if I'm going to hold this property over the next 5, 10 years, I just do a simple calculation. I know I want a margin on terms to be 800 to 1200% on average, and non cash 300 to 500%. If the market responds, which they do, I've never been stuck with this raw land, I know I'm right. So for me, I'm looking, when I'm making offers at a data, another data point, I should have a 3 to 5% response rate. So if it's under 3%, I know I came in too low in that market, we're in an inflationary period. So the properties that I was buying, you know, a year ago, they've gone up 15% in value, just from, you know, other sellers holding on longer. They wanted that higher price, but the ratio goes up. So that's really what we look at. But now if it's, I mean more than 5% of people saying, oh, yeah, I'll sell you my land. I get nervous. And I retrade Hmm.

Mark Podolsky 13:55
Do you have any, you know, the, the Mark you are now, 5000 plus transactions later, versus who you were when you started, ff you could go, someone listening might say, Oh, my gosh, I want to do this. I have $3,000 saving account or whatever, I want to do something with it. But if you could go back in time and give your starting out Mark self some advice based on what you know now, you've had your Malcolm Gladwell 10,000 hours, you know, what, what advice would you give to someone just getting started?

Mark Podolsky 16:14
Don't wait five years to have coffee with my mentor, Ori. So I worked this business for five years, and I'm doing everything myself, Susan, everything. And I'm reading it all off my computer. And you know, I'm working from home, and I'm raising my kids. And it's like the best job ever compared to investment banking. And in my mind, I'm like, Oh, I, I'm an entrepreneur. So I go to coffee with Ori. And I'm telling you what I'm doing in my day, and he's like, Stop. Don't call yourself an entrepreneur. It's like you're insulting me. Like, what are you talking about? He's like, if you die tomorrow, what happens to your so called land business? Who's gonna run it? I'm like, oh, so then I started putting systems, processes, automation, inexpensive virtual assistants in place, and started getting myself out of the business. So now I can die in peace. And that business will continue throwing off the cash flow for my estate forever. But until that point, I did not understand the concept of still economic dependency, which means if I personally was working, I wasn't making any money at a real visceral level. Now, I understood it from the sense that I used to work with dentists. And I would see the, you know, the problem they would have, like, the hands aren't in somebody's mouth, they're not generating any revenue. But I thought, oh, you know, it's fun to me. You know, go to Kinko's and print off a plat maps, I put out fire packages, and I notarize documents, and oh, this is so fun. And I was making a lot of money. But it wasn't a business. So I would rewind the tape and start playing business from day one.

Susan Sly 17:58
I had the, I love that. You said that I had the founder of Fresh Books on the show. And we actually got into a dialogue. Because one of the, I get a lot of startup founders coming to me asking me for advice, how should they raise money? Should they do crowdfunding? Should they do angel investing, you know, so and so forth. I always give the same advice. What's your exit strategy? And he's like, Oh, you shouldn't start thinking with your exit in mind. And I said, Yes, you should start with your exit in mind and your succession planning because people die. People, you know, they're all, you get sued, like all these different things that happen, and you want to start to think about it. You come from the ibanking world, and I love that you brought this up, because so many people who are building businesses, their heart is in it, and they're, you know, they're in it every day, they're getting their hands dirty, but if something happens to them, there's no business.

Mark Podolsky 18:54
Absolutely, like they don't scale. Mm hmm.

Susan Sly 18:57
Right. Yeah. You can't scale you. Unless you are an AI. So let's talk about this. So I'm, so I am a crypto investor. I'm in the buying--

Mark Podolsky 19:10
Excellent. Are you, you're in the HODL club?

Susan Sly 19:13
I am. Me too. We were talking, Okay, So friends everywhere around the world, 141 countries or whatever we are in now, Mark and I were talking before we started the show about Twitter. So I am my Twitter person. My team does other social media for me, but I enjoy Twitter because I really love the sheep army, it's so entertaining. And I love all the crypto ones on there. And it's, I find it very relaxing. You know, I'll just like go on there, watch all of the stuff that's happening. So let's talk about land in the metaverse. So I go into, onto the Decentraland website and I'm looking at land because it came across my feed that a Canadian company, and I'm originally Canadian. I love you all Canada, you're still in the top five. The, it came across my feed, Mark, that a Canadian company had spent two and a half million dollars to buy a premier, I think it's a building in Decentraland on their fashion street and we were seeing like Louis Vuitton and different huge, massive fashion retailers buying virtual properties in the metaverse. And so let's start there. Have you purchased any Metaverse property?

Mark Podolsky 20:31
So I have not. And it's not that I'm against it. It's that I don't know where Manhattan is in the metaverse. Now, once I can figure that out, and I can, I can also figure out like, I want to, so when I'm looking at crypto world, I don't, I want to ignore the noise of what's hot today. I'm going to think about what's going to be hot, or what's going to sustain 20 years from now, Right? And so I don't have a good answer to that, you know. NFTs are great. You know, x infinity making money with games, buying these digital assets are great, you know, and I love the fact that there's so much opportunity in the metaverse in the space. But when I look 20 years out, so I'm always thinking, if everything's gonna change, and everything is gonna change, what's not going to change? And I don't have a good answer to that, fundamentally, in the space of digital ad. That being said, I want to find the answer. And when I do, let you know, my strategy, but I'm still exploring it, I still need more data points. I'm really risk averse, Susan. So that's it. Now, that's not to be, that's not to say I haven't set up my Metamask wallet, I have. I'm on open sea. I love all this stuff. I'm ready to go. I'm funded with eath. But until I can answer that question, I'm not ready to risk real dollars on it.

Susan Sly 22:11
And I think, and I love that you said that because one of the things, so I'm, I'm in Decentraland, essentially on their version of Zillow for Decentraland. And so they've got their fashion street, they've got different residences, then they have land. And I was looking at this particular piece of land that is three blocks from where the Canadian company spent two and a half million. And it was I think, 8000 that you could buy it in Aetherium or in manna, which is the currency of decentraland. And I started to really think about, I love that question that you ask yourself, what is not going to change? I spend 99% of my work day contemplating what is going to change, right? Working in AI, right? So what is going to change? How are we going to do business differently? I went to tour in commercial office space, Mark, and they gave me glasses, VR glasses. And so they're like, oh, just you know, I had, it looked like a water gun. So you point the water gun and then poof, you go into like, what's going to be their gym and then you point it somewhere else and you go poof into what's going to be like a common area kind of thing. And that is going to happen. We are going to tour things virtually. That is going to happen. A lot of kids grew up with NFTs gaming, that kind of thing. So I'm looking at, now this is just my opinion, and everyone, I'm not giving you investment advice, and Mark and our new friends so we're just like, you guys know the show is like a coffee chat. I know on Mark's show someone's drinking beer the other day. I, it's too early for me to drink wine yet, but that could happen. But you know, it's, to me, I'm looking at it potentially as an investment. But here's the thing with to your point, we don't know where Manhattan is. Singapore is building a whole Metaverse Singapore. But you can't get from decentraland to Metaverse Singapore. You have to go into decentraland and then go into Metaverse Singapore. So it's, it's this concept of where would you buy this virtual land? I mean, that's, that's the big thing.

Mark Podolsky 24:27
Yeah, exactly. So I don't know. I don't know. But I, I am going to come up with the answer at some point. And then when I do, I will share it. But I'd like to, I'd like to do what I'm doing, which is buy the digital land and then sell it on terms with either Bitcoin or eath and get monthly payments for it. Because that way I'm mitigating my risk if I'm wrong and the good, I'm investing, I'm not speculating.

Susan Sly 25:02
Yeah. Yeah, one of the, I was running some numbers with one of my staff. And I said, so if someone did $2 million last year, and they, they had the opportunity to offer their clients to pay in eath, or to pay in Bitcoin, just very conservative, quote unquote, conservative coins, that, even if say 10% of them did it, but they sat on that 200,000 that 200,000 would be worth over 2 million now. And so one of the things I'm saying to entrepreneurs is, and we've run out my own company, one of my companies, is how can we do more transactions in Aetherium? How can we do more transactions in Bitcoin? And what if we build out our funnels and build out those residual streams and just sit on it and you know, and just accrue it? Because there's, one thing we know as we see different countries stabilizing their currency against Bitcoin, certain things to your point, what's not going to change? And I always think, my mentor's Harvey Mackay, you've mentioned mentors many times. So Harvey has always said, Susan, speculate, speculate. So I'll openly speculate in front of 1000s of people that I personally don't think that in the next five years, we are going to move away from cryptocurrency. I think we're going to move closer to cryptocurrency. That's my opinion.

Mark Podolsky 26:28
I 100%. Agree, I think it's, it's kind of like 1996 right now, with the Internet. And I don't know, I mean, you're probably too young, but I was, you know, in, you know, just getting out of college. And, you know, the whole concept of buying something online was so scary.

Susan Sly 26:48
I might be older than you. I graduated college in '92.

Mark Podolsky 26:53
No kidding. Well, whatever you're doing, Susan Sly, you keep doing it. So anyways, we'll talk about David Sinclair's reverse aging after the podcast. Anyways-- Love him. I do too. So okay. That being said, I do think we're at that point in crypto where it needs to be made easier. Like my parents could go online and create a meta mask wallet. They wouldn't understand the security pieces of it. They wouldn't even begin to understand, you know, what, what does this mean, a wallet. Right? It's just right now, the whole thing is just too complex. I think when you have a big life, imagine you're in your 30s, you got kids, you got a job, like who's got time to go down the crypto rabbit hole? So until the technology catches up, and it's like they can amazon it, that's when cryptocurrency is going to explode. And I agree with you, I do think Bitcoin will become the global currency. I mean, if you're El Salvador, or if you're Nigeria-- Turkey, look what happened. Right like, you love the idea of Bitcoin. So I think that ultimately, to me, If you disagree, Bitcoin will be volatile in the short term, long term is going to create tremendous value. Where the dollar is going to be stable in the short term, but long term, we're losing purchasing power every single day.

Susan Sly 28:27
This is like such a fun topic for me, Mark. So Cathy Wood, so I'm going to like ask you to speculate. And PS going back to the internet. So my listeners know, I was the first online life coach in 1995 at a website called Making Fitter Bodies. I was a health and fitness coach, '95. So yes, I was, I'm an OG internet marketer. So Cathy Wood, helms the Ark funds, Cathy Woods said on CNBC, she thinks bitcoin is going to go to 250,000 a coin in the next, I can't remember what Cathy said, it's, you know, fairly short term, she's speculating, but what is your thought on that?

Mark Podolsky 29:09
I think that no one has a crystal ball. Right? I do think fundamentally, it is scarce. So there's only going to be 21 million Bitcoin. And what is money, right? It is just a story we tell ourselves. If tomorrow we all wake up and say the dollar is worthless, the dollar's worthless. If tomorrow we all wake up and say bitcoin is valuable, Bitcoin is valuable. I think fundamentally, there are some really amazing things with the blockchain. And since bitcoin is the oldest crypto cryptocurrency out there, and it seems to be you know, it's gonna get anti, more anti fragile as time goes on. And, you know, countries and governments are adopting it. And we've seen, you know, the fluctuation in price. And it's got built in scarcity. Unlike fiat money, I think it's inevitable that one day we'll look back at 250,000 a coin as a freaking bargain. Bargain. So I'm buying Bitcoin every week. So I, what's happening when you're buying bitcoins, you're selling dollars. I don't want dollars.

Susan Sly 30:29
I'm buying Bitcoin every week, I'm buying Aetherium every week. Mark Divine, who was on the show, he's one of my favorite humans. Mark and I were getting together one afternoon in San Diego, and he's doing such cool stuff. And we start to talk about crypto and you know which ones he's buying, which ones he owns, he has some alt coins like I do. And it's interesting, Mark, because all of the true, I bleed entrepreneurship, I figure out how to add value to people's lives. All of them, as long as they're in a certain age range. They all are buying and holding crypto. And one of my friends called me and he had made millions and millions of dollars in this other venture that he had. And he was like, Susan, I have made more money in Bitcoin that I made in doing that. And you know, and he's like, again, one of the smartest people I know, like yourself, like super smart. And we have an investment banker saying, I don't like risk. Here's how you, you know, here's how you, you make money with raw land in the real world. I refuse to say the meat verse, I think it's insulting, and, and exploring, and we'll have to have another conversation since we're both in Arizona, maybe in person and and have this conversation about what those possibilities are because it is going to involve, evolve. And I think the story is going to unfold very quickly. I agree. I did buy seven real estate domains in the metaverse last night.

Mark Podolsky 32:02
How cool. How fun.

Susan Sly 32:06
I won't tell anyone what they are. But yes.

Mark Podolsky 32:10
Yeah. And you know, there's so much opportunity right now. And there's so many cool things going on, in, in crypto and defy. And it's, it's, it's incredible. I mean, you can put your money in opera right now at 9%.

Susan Sly 32:28
Like, it's just there's, there's so many opportunities for people who work hard to take, you know, I'm not a believer in holding debt. But there are a lot of opportunities for people. One of the things I've said to people is, is okay, don't drink a $50 bottle of wine, just not have wine on your Thursday. Take that money, put it in Bitcoin, put it in ether when you can just take small bits of it. And the thing I love about what you're teaching Mark, and I was like Sherlock Holmes, Holmesing Mark. Before we did the show that you're teaching, a very low risk, salient way for people to take their hard earned dollars, and to invest in something that is a very tangible asset. We're, Mark and I aren't suggesting you go spend a bunch of money on Metaverse land right now, because it's still, we don't have all the answers to that at this moment. If Singapore is selling Metaverse land, I might go buy some there, because that is a whole different thing. But you know, I'm excited Mark. And you have a course that you're going to give away for free.

Susan Sly 33:35
Can you talk about that? Yeah. Super excited about this.

Mark Podolsky 33:39
Yeah. So you know, as we're talking about that model, Susan, the front end of that is a bit unwieldy if you're just starting out, right? So you've got to do county research, you got to get a list, you got to scrub the list, you got to price the list, you got to send out your offers. Now, if we can eliminate that front part, and just buy from somebody like me or somebody else in, who's a land investor that's reputable, and we can buy wholesale, and we can see that there's meat on the bone to say double our money, then that would make things a lot easier. So it's called a wholetailing model. So we're going to buy

Mark Podolsky 34:35
It's a wholetailing model. So we're going to buy wholesale and then we're going to sell retail and double our money. We're, create that passive income. That's we, simply where to start and then once you get proof of concept, and you're comfortable with it, my argument, you'll go deeper into the model and learn more.

Susan Sly 35:00
I love it so I want everyone to go to So once again, it will be in the show notes. And go, everyone knows that I'm just like obsessed with Twitter I told you and you know as we shared. So go follow Mark on Twitter. You know it's his team running his Twitter but they're doing a really good job.

Mark Podolsky 35:31
Thank you, Susan. So Susan's following my Twitter feed more than I am because I have the attention span of a fair and a double cappuccino and I can't go on the socials

Susan Sly 35:43
without-- yeah I'm so, most successful entrepreneurs are severely ADD and Twitter just aligns with my level of attention span so it's perfect. Everything else is just way too slow for me, so it's, it is a lot of fun, but I'm mostly following crypto. So anyway, and go follow me on Twitter @Susan_sly. Someone took the Susan Sly so you know, who knows, but I'm Susan_sly on Twitter, check it out there. Anyway, Mark, thanks so much for being here. What a fun conversation.

Mark Podolsky 36:14
This is great. And I don't know, are we real and raw enough? Well, I think-- did you feel good about

Susan Sly 36:20
it? I feel good about it. I mean, if we're talking about buying virtual land and where things are going, I don't think it gets more real than that as real as the metaverse can be. Alright, well, thank

Mark Podolsky 36:32
you so much. I really appreciate it.

Susan Sly 36:34
Well, thank you. And so for everyone listening, Mark and I would love a five star review. Please do share this on social, tag us, we would love that. And go to the deals and get Mark's course. It is, I'm getting his course. It's, it's down. All right. All right with that everyone, God bless, go rock your day, and I'll see you on the next episode.

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Susan Sly

Author Susan Sly

Susan Sly is considered a thought leader in AI, award winning entrepreneur, keynote speaker, best-selling author, and tech investor. Susan has been featured on CNN, CNBC, Fox, Lifetime, ABC Family, and quoted in Forbes Online, Marketwatch, Yahoo Finance, and more. She is the mother of four and has been working in human potential for over two decades.

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