249. How to Create a Brand That People Trust with Unique Designz Founder, Henry Kaminski Jr.

Henry Kaminski 00:00
I have to, it has, I have to wear this and feel good in it. Mm hmm. I do. And that's what you were saying before, otherwise, I'm not going to promote it. Right? And I agree with that 1,000%. However, when you break it down by percentage of who we're actually designing the brand for, I would say 20%. And then 80% needs to be designed for your ideal customer.

00:30
Welcome to Raw and Real Entrepreneurship. The show that dares to bring no nonsense insight to those who have the courage to start, grow and scale a business. I'm your host, Susan Sly.

Susan Sly 00:45
All right, everyone, what is up all over the world? I want to give shout out to all the hustlers, side hustlers and the raw and real entrepreneurs. You're here because you want the no nonsense, just get to the point. And my guest today is all that and more because he's from New Jersey. It's just, that's gonna preface everything. So get this, he is the host of the popular Brand Doctor Podcast, he talks about strategies that help entrepreneurs design reputable and profitable personal brands, and I just want to go hashtag thank God. Because you know, one of the things Ryan Deiss, who's a friend of mine, he says like why would we sacrifice our soul at the altar of fame. And so my guest today is going to make sure you don't do that. So your soul is protected. As a self taught graphic designer, brand consultant, he's overcome the odds and built a variety of wildly successful businesses. And you know, when you research the guy, you go, Oh my gosh. He has worked with Jon Bon Jovi, Fabio, I want to ask about that one. And the amazing Russell Brunson. I know Russell, amazing person. And he has been called the million dollar Brander and was introduced into the Click Funnels' Two Comma Club, which is no easy feat. And on top of all of that, he's just an outstanding human. So Henry Kaminski, thanks for being on Raw and Real Entrepreneurship.

Henry Kaminski 02:04
Thank you. What an intro, man. Thank you for having me. Again, I've done my research on you as well. I love what you are doing for the entrepreneur community. And congratulations to all your success as well. I think it's fantastic. And keep up the great work.

Susan Sly 02:20
Oh my gosh, well, thank you. I've got so many questions for you. It's like Henry and I were talking before the show, we're like, let's just have dinner, we're gonna hang out. Oh my gosh. Okay. So Henry, here we are. It's, it's, it's a bananas time we got. The great resignation, 73.4% of people in America alone, say I want to leave my job. We've got 61% people say they start, want to start a business, 92% never do. Here's my question for you. If you lost everything, you had 90 days to build, using your skills to build a million dollar business, what would you do?

Henry Kaminski 02:54
Well, it depends on where I'm at. Right? But the first thing that I'm going to do is I'm going to survey the land. And I'm going to see what resources are there already, what resources they're lacking, and figure out the need, and figure out where the people in this community are struggling. So it's going to be a lot of diagnosis work, before I can strategize a plan to execute. So I wish I have the answer for you. But, but, but that's where I would start. And by, by uncovering all of that, then I would go and present my case and present the the offer accordingly to give them what they want, To make their lives easier, whether it's to save time, whether it's to save resources, whether it's to save money, whatever the case may be, but that's my goal. And with that said, I'm pretty sure I can hit that million dollar mark in 90 days.

Susan Sly 03:58
So you, what I'm hearing is you're going to, you're gonna find out what are the, what's the problem that you know, a lot of people want to solve, and you're going to give them a solution to that problem. So that's step number one. Let's get into tactics because this is your zone of genius. You're not playing here. We've had some great marketers on the show. We've had some great brands on the show. We've had billionaires on the show. And you know, let's get into tactics. So let's say you have that idea. What are you going to build in order to monetize that?

Henry Kaminski 04:30
Yeah, so we're in 2022 now, right? Like we have technology at our fingertips. It's not like we're in the caveman era where we have to use sticks and rocks, right? Okay.

Susan Sly 04:43
Or like my first internet business was 1995. That was like sticks and rocks.

Henry Kaminski 04:51
The dial up modem. Oh yeah. So what I want to do is I'm going out and I am going to ask the big questions. You know, like, what, what's your biggest challenge? What are you trying to accomplish? And what are some of the things in between that are preventing you from doing that? And then I'm going to listen and take Procopius notes. I think a lot of times entrepreneurs these days, or let's just talk salespeople, they want to always show and prove. They, they're constantly trying to sell themselves. They're trying to convince, they're trying to constantly get a yes, when they should be listening more than then talking. And listen, I was horrible at sales, I would talk myself out of deals all day long. And come home at the end of the day, so frustrated, and my wife was like, just stop talking, and start asking better questions. So I'm always going to stay in diagnosis mode. I use these terms a lot, and this is where we got the Brand Doctor from, air quotes, is the way that I really helped my clients get the results that they're looking for, and it's diagnosis, prescription, and then application. Those are the, that, if you want to talk tactics, Susan, that is the, that is my tactic that has proven my business and proven my value to the marketplace. I always tell people, if you try to prescribe before diagnosing, that is malpractice. And you can go to jail for that. So we're not trying to you know, we're not trying to do that. So that's, so we could go as deep as you want there but that, that's the three step approach that I work with my clients on to help them get the results that they're looking for.

Susan Sly 07:04
I love that. You wouldn't you know, you wouldn't prescribe before you diagnose. So you've got the diagnosis, you've got the prescription, you said application. So the listeners know, one of my best friends on the planet is Rebecca Zung. And Rebecca is also a Two Comma Club member. She's you know, known for negotiating with a narcissist, got a huge YouTube channel, also a student of Russell. And one of the things Rebecca and I always talk about is execution. So Henry, like, as an example, Rebecca has some big goals for 2022. I have some big goals for 2022. And we'll, we'll talk and say, Okay, what are you executing on? Because that's the difference between the 8% the 92%, is that execution. What do you say to the person who's like,

Susan Sly 07:54
Okay, I have a problem I

Susan Sly 07:55
want to solve Henry, I know how to solve it. But I'm terrified to execute. Because I'm sure you've had that with your clients. Yeah. So

Henry Kaminski 08:03
I'm going to ask, I'm going to ask a question, what do you have more of, time or money, right now? What do you have more of? And if it's time, then let's roll up our sleeves and I could give you the blueprint, and I'm going to have you get to work. But if it's, if you don't have that kind of time, then we got to go to our old buddy, Dan Sullivan's philosophy, which is, look for the who's and not the house. When I say that, it's who can help you execute this? And don't get so bogged down on how to get it done. You know, I always say if you want it bad enough, you will find a way or you will find somebody with the way. And that's something that we really have to pay attention to like, that was something you know, when, when Russell and I were doing business together, I learned a lot from him as we were building out the brand for Click Funnels, and he was a master at finding the who's, you know, and he just stayed in his lane, did what he did best. Be the face of the brand, he had the personality. And he stayed there and he had his execution team, you know, from John Parks, to Dave Woodward to all these people, but they were very strategically placed to help them achieve the goals that Click Funnels wanted to achieve. And that was brilliant. So looking for the who's not the house, you're not going to build a business all by yourself. I'm sorry, whoever says that if you take my course or follow this, this, this framework, you can be a guru in five weeks, you can be the next seven figure earner. No, it's gonna take a lot more work than that. And one of the things that I really want to emphasize on is if you're attracting unqualified clients to your sales pipeline, you have to take a timeout. And you have to ask yourself, Why am I attracting these types of folks? So I'm going to have you look at three different positions. One being your position in the marketplace. Are you the affordable version? Or are you the more premium exclusive version? It's the easiest way to explain. Sara Blakely says this best in one of her masterclasses, she said, You know, when I got in, Sara Blakely, for those that don't know, she's the CEO and founder of Spanx. And she turned that business into a billion dollar, over a billion dollar business with, and she started with $5,000. That's why I love her. And she said, You know, when I got into Neiman Marcus and Nordstrom, I had set a bar for myself, and I couldn't go into Walmart after that, no offense to Walmart. But I couldn't have my brand in an establishment like that, it would just, I would never be able to get back into the Neiman's and the, right? And it would actually dilute my brand. So I stayed accordingly to course. And, and so I really want you to take a look at your position in the marketplace to see where you fall. I had somebody reach out to me one day and say we have a $2,000 program and we keep getting people in our sales pipeline, asking for a payment plan. And he said, I feel like we're the poor man solution to, fill in the blank. I won't tell, I, you know, I don't want to give away his product or anything. Right? And I said, That's horrible. That's how you really feel about your product? And I said, All right, let's move on to the next step. Your messaging, What does your messaging say about you? Okay, that's very, very important to get that messaging right. If you don't know who you're speaking to, how can you speak to them? That's why I say you got to work backwards here. And this isn't revolutionary

Henry Kaminski 12:31
information here. I'm not trying to say that I know it all or this is like groundbreaking, but working backwards and understanding your, your, your ideal client better than they understand themselves. If you could articulate their problems better than they could tell them to you, they're gonna whip out that credit card, they're gonna engage in your product or service, and they're gonna hire you. So it's very important to understand so use their language. Don't use your language, use their language, because there's a power behind familiarity. Yes, yes. I knew I was gonna get tongue tied on that one. And, and they're going to subconsciously, connect with you. And then last but not least visual aesthetic. And I think Susan, you do a hell of a job with this. I I've taken a peek at your videos, and I'm looking at. Right away, I'm looking at the production value, I'm looking at how you present yourself on camera. Are you in frame? What kind of equipment are you using? I'm looking at all of this stuff, right? I'm looking at your articulation, your inflection, in your voice. I'm psycho when it comes to this stuff. Because I'm in the, you know, I'm in the brand space. So I'm just looking at that because I say to myself, Okay, if you want to attract a higher quality client, or a higher paying client, a more premium vendor, a more premium client customer. How are you showing up? Are you putting in the work yourself? You know, are you premium? Are you putting in that effort? Because you're only going to attract what you are. And that's why I always say you have to, you have to elevate. You have to constantly strive for more or better. Yes, you can take some time to celebrate, you can take some time to soak it in. But if you're not setting the bar a little bit higher the next time, that complacency and that stagnation is, will catch up to you. And so be very, very conscious of that. So those three positions, those three things when it comes to branding is extremely important to make sure that you're attracting the right people. Now, if you're attracting a more, if you're looking for more affordable, like if your clients are looking for a more affordable solution, and you look like a Gucci ad, you're gonna, you're gonna, they're gonna run away. Because all they're gonna say is, I can't afford you. Yeah. All right. So it's important.

Susan Sly 15:24
Henry, like, here's the Okay, Lady Gaga. That's the drop. All right, like, seriously, I hope everyone's taking notes. You said so much there. I just do a quick thing. You mentioned Sara Blakely. So all of the raw and unreal entrepreneurs, if you haven't heard my interview with Sarah's husband, Jesse, oh, my gosh, that's hilarious. I do a rap battle with Jesse, Henry. And that's it. The thing I just want to say like, everything Henry said, because I learned from all of my guests, and I've had some brand schizophrenia, which we're going to talk about in a minute. I would just say the thing, you know, I think maybe it's because I'm turning 50 this year, but it's just like, I don't have time to be anyone other than myself. So Jesse is on the show, Henry. And I'm like, I'm gonna challenge him to a rap battle. Because you know, Jesse was the first white rapper even before Vanilla Ice, right? And I'm like, hey, Jesse, you want to do rap battle? And he's like, No, I'm not hearing your rap battle. So I, my claim to fame is, I won a rap battle challenge against Jesse Itzler. Why? Because he just you know, he just didn't participate. So I declare myself the champion against Jesse. So going back to what you said about branding, I, this is Raw and Real Entrepreneurship. So I've had some brand schizophrenia myself, I'm like, pink and black, blue. Um, you know, and there was this point where I finally got to in 2021, where, so I'm half Chinese, and for, in my culture, gold, red, black, you know, Jade, like all these things. And I said, You know what, screw it, I have to brand align with what feels good to me. Because if I don't feel good about those little video clips, if I don't feel good about how the podcast looks, the photo, anything, I'm not gonna freakin promote it. Right. So can you talk about brand schizophrenia? I just made up that term. It's— no, no, no, it's— like, just know,

Henry Kaminski 17:24
It's, it's, it's a thing, Susan, it's definitely a thing. That's why we're—

Susan Sly 17:29
Thank you for putting your white collar on, I do feel better.

Henry Kaminski 17:34
When we, when we design brands for our clients, I have a very strong heart to heart with them before we get started. And I tell them that you have to trust who you hire and hire who you trust before you make an investment and commitment like this one. Okay. And I tell them, I've had clients in the past, where they come in, and they say, Okay, I'll listen, I'll, I'll do it. But there is some inkling of uncertainty or lack of trust. And next thing, you know, they become art director, they become designer, they, and then they're trying to have me and my team push pixels around. And I said, if you have that kind of time, this is not the right program for you. You know, I'm gonna listen to you. I'm going to take your opinion into consideration. And yes, at the end of the day, it's your brand, you have the final say, but I will challenge you on some of the, some of the opinion, I will challenge you on some of your assumptions as well. Okay. So let's get to it. Right? When we are designing a brand, who are we designing it for? That is the big question. Everybody says, me, it's my business. It's my brand. Of course, it's me. And I said, True. Alright, so if we had to break this down into percentage, how much percentage would we be designing the brand for you? What do you think, just take a guess.

Susan Sly 19:11
Oh, it's, it's not for you, really. It's for the, the customer, right, in my opinion.

Henry Kaminski 19:18
So I agree with you of what you said before. I have to, it has, I have to wear this and feel good in it. Mm hmm. I do. And that's what you were saying before, otherwise, I'm not going to promote it. Right? And I agree with that. 1,000%. However, when you break it down by percentage of who we're actually designing the brand for, I would say 20%. And then 80% needs to be designed for your ideal customer.

Susan Sly 19:53
Yes, like, just preach it brother. So there was a, there's a company, I won't disclose the name of the company or my association with it, but one of the founders, he loves like pastel colors, but the sector that that company is in, none of their ideal customers have pastels in their logos. And so I showed them all the logos of the, their top 10 dream customers. And you know, and I'm like, you can design this for one person and that person will feel really good or you can start to do something where there's going to be a trust around that. And, and so anyway, long story short, it's, you know that is an ongoing debate, right, for that particular company. And, and I love what you said, because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if the founder likes pastels, but if your end users are, let's say in the industrial sector or something like that, you are missing out, because brand trust. Henry, how, you're an expert. How long does a brand have to build trust in that first exposure? Because there are a lot of different theories around this.

Henry Kaminski 21:05
That's a great question. That is a really great question. I think it's going to take time these days. But if you get it right, you can compress that time very quickly. I'll give you a quick example. So the millennial generation, the Gen z's, the Gen X's, they are perfect examples of culture. Like they are looking for brands that stand for something. Right? And it's, and that is the biggest thing. And guys, let's face it, none of us are getting any younger, and our client demographic is getting older. So guess what, these millennials, Gen Z's, Gen X's, they're all going to be our clients one day, so long as we're still in business, right? So I hate hearing all these millennials that, or these, that, and they're, well, you better get an understanding of their buying mentality. The 'why' they're buying and how they're buying, because if you don't adapt, they're not gonna buy from you. So just get back to this point. So if we know that millennials are going to get introduced to a brand, and the first thing in their minds, they're going to ask themselves, what does this brand stand for and who are they for, right? What are the brand attributes? What are the values that this brand stands for, and does those values align with mine? You can have a such an inferior product or service to your competitor, right, and still get the business because your values align with that person. So keep that in mind, when it comes to building that trust is that value alignment is so huge, that's why I tell people like, I'm working with a meal kit company right now. And they're a lot smaller than Blue Apron, Hello Fresh and, and all of those, those, those whales in the industry. And I said you, you know how you're going to beat them? You. When I do my competitive research, none of them have a face to the brand. And this is where personal branding comes in. And it is, it's like, it's, it's like an ace in your back pocket. I said, I would love to see you out there more with your personality behind the scenes, talking to the audience, talking to the community. This is what Fabio Viviani does so spectacularly. He has multiple brands under his legacy, if you will. And he is out there promoting them all on social media, like a 22 year old kid. And that's how he stands out.

Susan Sly 24:14
And that's huge, because what you just said, I hope this is landing for everyone. I was looking, Henry at Startup Funding Statistics, right? And so in the startup world, what we're seeing is a new trend that, that startups in Silicon Valley that have a face to the brand, meaning one of the founders has a brand, they are more likely to get funding then non branded companies. So you can have a group of like, tech people and they've got this great tech, but if you know, no one is out there as the face of the brand, I can tell you. So Elon Musk we all know, he you know, three multi billion dollar companies. And Elon has a personal brand. It doesn't matter like him or not, and the other thing Elon does, I was doing a talk for MIT a couple weeks ago. And one of the things I said about Elon is he's listening to the masses. He just decided, yes, we're gonna take Dogecoin for Tesla merchandise, right? He's listening to the masses. He posted on social media, 2021, How many of my shares in Tesla Should I sell off? He had a huge tax bill. It was hilarious because it, the Tesla shares, and disclosure, I have Tesla shares, the, they go down like 200 bucks a share because he's selling but he's listening to the people. So the next thing Elon does, do you think that he will have, if he doesn't bootstrap it, he'll have any trouble funding it? No. And that's the difference. As a head of an AI company or a co head of an AI company, I have a personal brand. When we did our seed round Henry, we raised over $7 million in friends and family because people are like, Susan, I know you're going to go and you're going to get things done. Right? And it's so different. Even PhDs, who don't have personal brands are not getting the research funded. It is, it is not negotiable. So I want to Okay, Henry, I want to rapid fire some questions for you.

Henry Kaminski 26:12
Let's rock and roll. I see, we could talk for hours.

Susan Sly 26:15
I know, I know. Do you, do like football? I do. Who's your team?

Henry Kaminski 26:22
The Jets, unfortunately.

Susan Sly 26:23
The Jets. I knew you were gonna say The Jets. I just knew it. I knew it. We can't be friends now. Okay, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pass. Alright, so here we go. Uh, your pics for top branding trends 2022, go!

Henry Kaminski 26:42
Yeah, So believe it or not, 3d illustration, Sans Serif fonts, you're also going to see a lot of negative space. So let your brand aesthetics breathe is going to be a huge play this year. I see a lot of just vomiting you know of different types of fonts, different types of images, different types of, and that's going away. Simplicity is going to be the key for 2022.

Susan Sly 27:16
Okay, I love it. I just took a breath when you said that okay, cuz I keep saying to my team like, enough with all the scrolly crap cuz I can handle that. Just give me a white background. Just give me the white background, the black letters, a little bit of gold thrown in for the Asian part. You know that, you know, we— hey listen, we have, our biggest listenership and viewership is in India. It's growing. So we'll just like, hey, we're gonna keep the gold. That's awesome. If I ever become your client, that will be the thing we'll have to negotiate that. Let's talk very quickly, next pass, the metaverse, how is that going to change branding?

Henry Kaminski 27:55
It's going to flip it on its head. We're, we're no longer going to be branding websites. We're going to be branding, outfits. We're going to be branding offices in the metaverse. We're going to be branding studios, office, but like all of that is going to be part of the service that we're gonna have to provide as creatives in the design space moving forward. And so from sneakers to everything, it's, it's how you show up in the metaverse is going to be just so fascinating to watch unfold. So I have my ears to the pavement. The minute, what's his name, xox came out in October and put that nice little video out, I've been paying attention.

Susan Sly 28:52
The, it's interesting you mentioned it. So one of the companies that I'm invested in, it's in, and again disclosure, because I have to do it. Just go to susansly.com you can see the companies I'm invested in. Not my we funder ones, but the major ones, is called Guudguuds. And they're creating a Metaverse of good and they're gamifying Good. So in that whole Metaverse, if you transact and buy things in the metaverse that you're going to have shipped to your home in the real world there's a whole component of give back, good, liberating girls from trafficking, building wells, like all this really cool stuff. So a Metaverse of good. And so any of the companies that I'm looking at now in investing in, Henry they about are going to be in the metaverse, crypto, something. But you know, and it's just, it's, okay next, next pass to. In my dreams, I'm a world class NFL quarterback just pretend. Just play along with me. Okay, so, so my next, my next pass to you is for the touchdown, crypto branding, transacting, what you know, just go for it. Any thoughts there?

Henry Kaminski 30:00
So I think it's going to be the next currency for sure. I will full, full disclosure, I recently got into the crypto game. I'm a little, I feel like I'm a little behind my colleagues but I still feel, based on the research and the study that I've been doing thus far, that I am still ahead of the adoption, the mass adoption that's to come. And so as far as crypto goes, I have a very simple, simple strategy. I invest in bit, I invest in eath. And I put $1 amount per week away in both. And I don't look at it, I don't look at it. So as, as of this recording, crypto's getting beat up right now. But it's the best time for anybody, including myself to get in, because I'm in a debt, right. So I'm going to let this be my 10 year plan. And it's going to be my, my retirement. And I think it's going to be, crypto is going to be the retirement plans for a lot of the younger generation moving forward because they're struggling right now to create that wealth, like our parents. Our parents had the ability to do through, you know, IRAs and stock market and all of that. This is their version. And so if you get in now, I think you're going to be in good shape. But again, there's two ways to lose, right? If you have nothing to lose, and if you could afford to lose. So I'm looking at this, I'm playing a very strategic, not going all in. I'm going in very strategically and knowing that if I lose, I could afford it. And but yeah, I'm just gonna set it and forget it. And you'll see very, very quickly it's only going to go up. Yes, it's very volatile right now. And it will probably stay volatile for quite some time. But if you hang on, and you have the patience. I see us all winning.

Susan Sly 32:10
Yeah. And like you I was late to the party. And even though you and I both know Gary Vee, and I've done speaking events with Gary, that, you know, Gary has been talking about crypto for like, a long time. And so, and the thing, the thing I would say is when you have people like Henry, like Gary, that are talking about things, it's time when you start to hear about it to do your research, right. And so I have, I have stable coins too. I have a cerium, I have bitcoin, Solana, I'm, you know, currently buying more Solana—

32:45
what about XRP, you got to get on XRP.

Susan Sly 32:48
XRP, I am part of the shib army on Twitter. And I love it. It's, you know, I just, it's, I find it so entertaining as a little bit of Doge. But I have a lot of shib. And Mark Divine, who I had in the show, he created SEAL Fit. And Mark and I had lunch in, in California, Henry and Mark is such outstanding human genius brander. And, and anyway, so we're talking about crypto and I'm like, so do you have shib? Because yeah, and I won't disclose how much shib he has but he's kind of a shib whale so that's all I have to say. But you know, I think to your point, there's a lot of opportunities. And what I say to people is, instead of having a bottle of wine on a Wednesday night, take that money, and maybe it's disposable. That's what you throw into whatever but you know, you gotta, you gotta be smart about it. Okay, this is my last. I'm going for the touchdown. All right, let's go. You know, if you're, if you're not on YouTube, you can. you can hear me pulling my chair back and I'm scoring the touchdown, which is the Patriots beating Jets.

Henry Kaminski 33:55
Alright, alright. You know,

Susan Sly 33:57
Mack Jones, our new quarterback, he gave all of his offensive line Bitcoin for Christmas. And what a sweetheart, he also gave them a lesson in Bitcoin by the person who started Bitcoin magazine. I'm like, Oh, sweet.

Henry Kaminski 34:15
Wow, that's a great gift.

Susan Sly 34:17
I just want to— so for the touchdown, you have a course. Tell us about your course. So for someone who says, you know, I'd love to hire you, but I'm just beginning but you have a course.

Henry Kaminski 34:29
Yeah. So well, it's free. It's, it's 100% free. It is the Brand Doctor's Masterclass. It's going to be about two hours in length. There's multiple lessons in it, but it's going to help you understand how entrepreneurs scale to seven figures and beyond. The tools they use, the resources they use, the mindset they use, the resources they use. The most important, the questions they use to challenge themselves to get to that level in business. So all you have to do is go to Unique DesignZ, with a Z at the end, not an S, dot net, scroll down, you'll get to that masterclass. If you want to get right to it, it's Unique Designz, again with a Z at the end, not an S, dot net, forward slash, level up my branding. And I hope you enjoy it. I would love to get some feedback from you on it. And feel free to hit me up on all my socials. They're all on my website. And check out the Brand Doctor Podcast because Susan's gonna be on it soon. She just doesn't know it yet.

Susan Sly 35:43
I'm excited. And in our show notes, we have show notes on Susansly.com. So we are going to have a link to Henry's course, a link to all of his social, follow him on social and if you're a Jets fan, you should follow him because you know that, that's the law of diminishing returns. I love it. I'm just, I'm just kidding. I have such, all the listeners know I have such an appreciation for football because I you know, I give a lot of props to my dad, Henry and my dad has, my dad has his own YouTube channel. I won't disclose what it is because he likes his green screen just a little too much. Anyway he, my dad is developing this reputation and so, but I was raised by a single dad grew up on Sundays watching doubleheaders of football. So I've watched my share of Jets. Uh, you know, and anyway, I just appreciate good football and I appreciate you. Thank you for your, your wisdom, your insights. I have a page of notes Henry so thank you so much. And I would just encourage everyone get the show notes because we transcribe these show notes just for people like you so you can get you know, all the good stuff. And get Henry's course. Oh my gosh, you need to go there and get that. So Henry, thanks so much for being here.

Henry Kaminski 36:56
Thanks again for having me, Susan. What a pleasure.

Susan Sly 36:59
Thank you. All right with that everyone, raw and real entrepreneurs, thanks so much for listening. If this show has been great, you know, Henry and I would love a five star review. And so please go ahead and do that. Share the show, tag us on social. With that, God bless, Go rock your day and I will see you in the next episode of Raw and Real Entrepreneurship.